Masterwork Potion Belt

[Vurt]

The alternative to this item is a feat (Quickdraw), or a 20000 gp item (gloves of storing). This item costs under 100 gp.

Changing something from a move action to a free action is a huge deal.

I think Quickdraw is more useful for pulling things other than just potions. If you could store weapons in a masterwork potion belt I might feel this arguement carried more weight. Let me propose a new feat instead: Quickdraw (potion), which only allows one to quickdraw a potion. How is that not a wasted feat for most characters? It compares poorly even to the lowly Alertness, in my opinion.

But I agree, changing something from a move action to a free one is a big deal, but only with the caveat that that something is regularly useful in practice. In general this usually involves things one attacks with. But the specifics in this instance seem to greatly mitigate that.

EDIT: Compare with how characters with BAB +1 or higher can draw a weapon for free as part of a move. In practice this amounts to only fighters at 1st level, and everyone else at 2nd. The potion belt essentially allows someone to do the same thing with a potion. After all, what 1st level character is going to drop 60 gp on one of these things at character creation?

EDIT2: Oh, and BTW, gloves of storing only cost 10k, not 20k.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[The Forsaken One]

The alternative to this item is a feat (Quickdraw), or a 20000 gp item (gloves of storing). This item costs under 100 gp.

Changing something from a move action to a free action is a huge deal.

Strongly disagree with this. Since you conveniently forget to mention what else that feat and item are capable off. These are just potions and as previously mentioned that instead of making it a fullround action worth of things to drink one turning it into a standard action + a by the DM limited amount of free action per round within reason shouldnt be any problem at all.

And as for the magic belt, why not just put your enhancements on the potion belt? Nothing wrong that with, just have a magical potion belt with enhancements and whatever. I do it all the time.

 

[IndyPendant]

Quick Draw

Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.

A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

The problem with the alternative to the potion belt being Quick Draw is that anal retentive GMs will not allow it to work with anything but a weapon, since that is clearly what the feat states it's for.

Therefore, for many Quick Draw is *not* a viable alternative.

Some GMs just like to hose their players. *shrug*

 

[KarinsDad]

Strongly disagree with this. Since you conveniently forget to mention what else that feat and item are capable off. These are just potions and as previously mentioned that instead of making it a fullround action worth of things to drink one turning it into a standard action + a by the DM limited amount of free action per round within reason shouldnt be any problem at all.

It was a big deal for my campaign.

So, I house ruled the masterwork potion belts and scroll bandoliers to be equivalent to drawing a weapon: At a +1 BAB, you can either pull them out as a move action, or you can do a Move and pull them out simultaneously. This still allows someone to pull out a potion as they move to a downed ally and have the ally drink the potion.

But, I seriously think that allowing a character to do a Full Round Attack and still pull out any item (be it a weapon, a potion, a scroll, a shield, or whatever) is a big deal and should not be allowed so cheaply. IMO.

 

[Vurt]

It was a big deal for my campaign.

So, I house ruled the masterwork potion belts and scroll bandoliers to be equivalent to drawing a weapon: At a +1 BAB, you can either pull them out as a move action, or you can do a Move and pull them out simultaneously. This still allows someone to pull out a potion as they move to a downed ally and have the ally drink the potion.

This sounds like a good compromise. Incidentally, what was the problem that came up in your game?

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[moritheil]

The problem comes when you have someone with exploding energized potions who wishes to take full attack actions to throw them, and gets around the quick draw feat by buying a potion belt.

 

[Deset Gled]

Since you conveniently forget to mention what else that feat and item are capable off.

Let me clarify. I was not attempting to state that this belt is anywhere near as powerful as the other things I mentioned, but I was pointing out the only other ways that it is possible to mimic the power of the belt (Vurt: good catch on the price. I was going from memory of the last build I made with them, that used a pair). Note that both of these options are extremely more expensive that this item. This item may be limited use, but is not limited enough to justify a 99.4% discount.

Looking at changes made from 3.0 to 3.5 makes me believe that WotC is on my side on this one. In 3.0, the Gloves of Storing only cost about 2000 gp. In 3.5, their cost went up about 500%. Also, 3.0 also allowed items to be pulled out of a Haversack as a free action, but was errataed to be a move action. 3.0 Haste would also have helpd a character pull off the same moves, but was revised in 3.5 not not allow any extra actions. Clearly, extra actions are something that is supposed to be hard to come by. Allowing a belt to give them for 60 gp is just going too far IMO.

 

[Chaldfont]

This is indeed a good piece of equipment. All my players get these for their characters. Are they unbalanced? I don't think so. The belts lead to the practice of the PCs spending most of their gold on potions. This left them light in other areas, so it all worked out.

It probably also speeds up combat encounters: standard action to drink your barkskin/cats grace/bull's strength/etc. You don't waste as much time buffing up before you get to the fun.

And throw a shatter spell at them every once in a while. Delight in the look on your player's face as TEN potions run down their legs.

 

[shilsen]

It was a big deal for my campaign.

So, I house ruled the masterwork potion belts and scroll bandoliers to be equivalent to drawing a weapon: At a +1 BAB, you can either pull them out as a move action, or you can do a Move and pull them out simultaneously. This still allows someone to pull out a potion as they move to a downed ally and have the ally drink the potion.

Did you also house rule how long it takes to give a potion to an unconscious person? That takes a full-round action (DMG pg. 229), so the person with the potion in your above example wouldn't be able to complete using it on the downed ally in the same round.

 

[KarinsDad]

This sounds like a good compromise. Incidentally, what was the problem that came up in your game?

I don't recall the exact details since it was a few years ago.

But, a player in my campaign did something like pull out a Scroll of Summon Monster and then start casting the one round spell. I told him he could not do that since it was a move action plus a full round action and he replied that he had purposely purchased the scroll bandolier (or potion belt, or whatever the situation was) just so that he could do this. When I found out the cost, I ixnaed it.

I have a bit of a problem with the "bigger, badder, better" syndrome that WotC has added into the game in the last few years by adding cheap items which allow one class to perform the actions of another class or which allow an item to perform the equivalent of a feat. Items, especially non-magical items, now have to get the DM nod in my game whereas when 3E first came out, this was not the case.