Masterwork Potion Belt

[KarinsDad]

Did you also house rule how long it takes to give a potion to an unconscious person? That takes a full-round action (DMG pg. 229), so the person with the potion in your above example wouldn't be able to complete using it on the downed ally in the same round.

Hmmm. Never saw that rule.

An unconscious character cannot resist, so giving them a potion should be no different than casting a spell on them.

No wonder they added the masterwork potion belts. They had a bad rule in the DMG and they corrected it with a bad item rule.

 

[Notmousse]

Why not wear the potion belt *over* the magic belt?

 

[Infiniti2000]

And throw a shatter spell at them every once in a while. Delight in the look on your player's face as TEN potions run down their legs.

Why would this depend on the potion belt (assuming you allow shatter to work on potions--which is a different argument)?

I can see why in every case listed here where this item is allowed, every PC obtains one ASAP. It's just that good. It's too good. For 1gp, it's a "no duh". It's no different than merely houseruling that you can retrieve a potion as a free action. No difference.

 

[shilsen]

Hmmm. Never saw that rule.

An unconscious character cannot resist, so giving them a potion should be no different than casting a spell on them.

No wonder they added the masterwork potion belts. They had a bad rule in the DMG and they corrected it with a bad item rule.

It's not about them resisting. Try getting an unconscious person to drink something, however small. It isn't that easy.

Anyway, I like the full-round rule. Different strokes...

 

[KarinsDad]

It's not about them resisting. Try getting an unconscious person to drink something, however small. It isn't that easy.

Do you have personal experience with this, or did you make it up?

In real life, you should never give an unconscious person anything to drink (unless maybe he is a diabetic and in need of sugar such as a soda), so I wonder where you get your information. Are you equating the risk factors of drinking while unconscious with some supposed difficulty?

Anyway, I like the full-round rule. Different strokes...

The problem with the rule is that in core, a PC at -9 cannot be healed with a potion (shy of his ally already having the potion bottle out and being within 5 feet). That means that 90% of the time, that PC is dead unless there is a caster capable of casting a Cure spell within 20 or 30 feet (or a Rogue with UMD and a Cure Scroll within 5 feet).

Rules that assist in PCs dying are not good rules.

This rule ensures that PCs at -9 have a greater chance to die. Having it be a standard action alleviates that somewhat.


So, you cannot have it both ways. Either the DMG full round rule is good, or the masterwork potion belt rule is good. If the DMG rule is good, then the masterwork potion belt overcomes some of the advantages of the DMG rule and hence is bad (especially considering how cheap it is). If not, then the DMG rule is bad.

 

[shilsen]

Do you have personal experience with this, or did you make it up?

In real life, you should never give an unconscious person anything to drink (unless maybe he is a diabetic and in need of sugar such as a soda), so I wonder where you get your information. Are you equating the risk factors of drinking while unconscious with some supposed difficulty?

Yes, that's what I'm equating. I should have phrased it better.

The problem with the rule is that in core, a PC at -9 cannot be healed with a potion (shy of his ally already having the potion bottle out and being within 5 feet). That means that 90% of the time, that PC is dead unless there is a caster capable of casting a Cure spell within 20 or 30 feet (or a Rogue with UMD and a Cure Scroll within 5 feet).

Rules that assist in PCs dying are not good rules.

Criticals, save or die spells, dying at -10 instead of at, say, -20, are all rules that assist in PCs dying. Doesn't make them bad rules to me. They do to you. And I'm to disagree with you. As I said, different strokes.

This rule ensures that PCs at -9 have a greater chance to die. Having it be a standard action alleviates that somewhat.

Yes, it does ensure that they have a greater chance to die. Not a problem in my book.

So, you cannot have it both ways. Either the DMG full round rule is good, or the masterwork potion belt rule is good. If the DMG rule is good, then the masterwork potion belt overcomes some of the advantages of the DMG rule and hence is bad (especially considering how cheap it is). If not, then the DMG rule is bad.

I never said that I want to have it both ways. I think the masterwork potion belt rule is really bad.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think the masterwork potion belt rule is really bad.

Well, at least we agree on that.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The problem with the rule is that in core, a PC at -9 cannot be healed with a potion (shy of his ally already having the potion bottle out and being within 5 feet). That means that 90% of the time, that PC is dead unless there is a caster capable of casting a Cure spell within 20 or 30 feet (or a Rogue with UMD and a Cure Scroll within 5 feet).

Maybe. A less invasive houserule would be that you do not lose a hit point from "dying" while a curative potion is being dripped down your throat. That's the one I go with, especially since I'm not entirely convinced it's a houserule (it's more like a clarification of an undefined scenario).

Btw, I'd say your houserule rarely ever keeps someone from dying but actually puts them back into the game more quickly. In other words, it's far more useful for character at -1 to -5 or so than it is for about -6 to -8. Your houserule doesn't really keep PCs from dying, it just makes it far easier to get them back up immediately. And, I'm not sure that's a good thing as it really weakens opponents without access to potions and coherent parties.

 

[KarinsDad]

Maybe. A less invasive houserule would be that you do not lose a hit point from "dying" while a curative potion is being dripped down your throat. That's the one I go with, especially since I'm not entirely convinced it's a houserule (it's more like a clarification of an undefined scenario).

It's more like a houserule since if you cannot 5 foot step to get to the downed PC immediately, you cannot take a full round action in order to stabilize him with a potion. Allowing someone to pour the potion down in part of round x and in part of round x+1 would be a houserule as well.

Btw, I'd say your houserule rarely ever keeps someone from dying but actually puts them back into the game more quickly. In other words, it's far more useful for character at -1 to -5 or so than it is for about -6 to -8. Your houserule doesn't really keep PCs from dying, it just makes it far easier to get them back up immediately.

Actually, my real houserule is that a PC at -10 or lower can be kept alive if healed up to -9 within a round. This occassionally keeps someone from dying. I was unaware that the standard action for a potion given to an unconscious character even was a houserule.

And, PCs cannot always get up immediately in my game either. It requires a DC 15 Will Save or they are stunned for a round. Granted, at higher levels, this houserule will rarely come into play, but at low levels, this offsets the "get back up right away" issue somewhat.

And, I'm not sure that's a good thing as it really weakens opponents without access to potions and coherent parties.

The game is played for the players, not the NPCs. If NPCs do not have potions or coherent parties, too bad. Thousands of NPCs can die in a given campaign and as DM, it is no skin off my nose.

Allowing any PC a chance to save a dying fellow PC, on the other hand, is heroic and fun, especially since they have to give up a round's worth of actions and a somewhat costly single use item to do so. Players remember when Targa the Barbarian saved Elena the Cleric's life.

Limiting healing of dying PCs mostly to divine spell casters is boring and pedestrian. Allowing PCs to sacrifice an item in order to save a fellow PC is not. Some of my best memories of the game are when one of my PCs saved one or more party members.

 

[Caliban]

How is this item overpowered? Retrieving it is a free action instead of a move-equivalent one, sure, but it still takes a standard action to actually drink the darned thing. So one can still only quaff one potion per round.

This seems to me to be useful primarily for downing healing potions while trying to get away from something! What am I missing here?

Cheers,
Vurt

You think that's good, try the Potion Bracer from Eberron (Sharn sourcebook, I believe). It holds 3 potions and lets you drink them as a Standard Action that doesn't provoke an AoO.