D&D General Matt Colville on adventure length

[Charlaquin]

That us less a problem of the Encounters, and more people not following a full Adventure Day. It's a game of attrition and resource management.

To be fair, if so many DMs struggle with the full adventuring day, maybe it shouldn’t be the default assumption. There are good reasons to use the attrition model, but if the player base resists it so strongly, maybe it isn’t worth fighting them about it.

 

[Parmandur]

To be fair, if so many DMs struggle with the full adventuring day, maybe it shouldn’t be the default assumption. There are good reasons to use the attrition model, but if the player base resists it so strongly, maybe it isn’t worth fighting them about it.

I mean, I have no idea how many do or do not, or if there is a significant resistance to the concept across the player base.

Logically, there are going to be four groups:

1. People who follow the Adventure Day, and hate it (probably doesn't exist much in the real world, but for logical completeness there it is)
2. People who follow the Adventure Day and love it
3. People who don't follow the Adventure Day and are frustrated at the balance being out of whack and hence unhappy
4. People who don't follow the Adventure Day and ate blissfully unaware of any issues and hence happy

Now, we have no data on what percentage of the player base might plot along these lines. But if 2 and 4 predominate, WotC would have no reason to change anything.

WotC has data on player activities and satisfaction.

WotC is not changing anything about Adventure Day balance in the revision.

Ergo, I surmise that there is not likely to be a significant resistance to the Adventure Day in the player base.

 

[Charlaquin]

I mean, I have no idea how many do or do not, or if there is a significant resistance to the concept across the player base.

Logically, there are going to be four groups:

1. People who follow the Adventure Day, and hate it (probably doesn't exist much in the real world, but for logical completeness there it is)
2. People who follow the Adventure Day and love it
3. People who don't follow the Adventure Day and are frustrated at the balance being out of whack and hence unhappy
4. People who don't follow the Adventure Day and ate blissfully unaware of any issues and hence happy

Now, we have no data on what percentage of the player base might plot along these lines. But if 2 and 4 predominate, WotC would have no reason to change anything.

WotC has data on player activities and satisfaction.

WotC is not changing anything about Adventure Day balance in the revision.

Ergo, I surmise that there is not likely to be a significant resistance to the Adventure Day in the player base.

Fair enough

 

[mamba]

WotC is not changing anything about Adventure Day balance in the revision.

Ergo, I surmise that there is not likely to be a significant resistance to the Adventure Day in the player base.

that could also just be the case because changing it destroys compatibility. There is not much they can change while staying compatible

I don’t think any UA asked about this

 

[Parmandur]

that could also just be the case because changing it destroys compatibility

While true, if there was actually broad dissatisfaction with the status quo, them compatability wouldn't be as high a priority.

I think it is likely that group 4 is by far the largest. Matt Mercer rarely rubs the Critical Role crew through anything resembling a full Adventure Day (sometimes, bit not often), and the players are having a great time. The Advebture Day is a maximum where balance gets to shine, not the only way to play.

 

[mamba]

I think it is likely that group 4 is by far the largest. Matt Mercer rarely rubs the Critical Role crew through anything resembling a full Adventure Day (sometimes, bit not often), and the players are having a great time. The Advebture Day is a maximum where balance gets to shine, not the only way to play

you can have a good time without it, sure, depending on your style of play it might even help because it is more about the story and the chars being awesome

I have no idea how the numbers break down into your four categories, but 4 might be the largest. Not a reason not to fix it however to help group 2, group 4 will simply keep on ignoring it once it is fixed… maybe in another 10 years they actually do address anything instead of just rearranging the furniture

 

[Parmandur]

you can have a good time without it, sure, depending on your style of play it might even help because it is more about the story and the chars being awesome

I have no idea how the numbers break down into your four categories, but 4 might be the largest. Not a reason not to fix it however to help group 2, group 4 will simply keep on ignoring it once it is fixed… maybe in another 10 years they actually do address anything instead of just rearranging the furniture

To nitpick about tue made up categories, group 2 is the one that uses the Adventure Day as part of their game and enjoy it.

Groups 1 and 3 would be the one who want a fix...but if they were not a statistically significant portion of the player base, in theory, why would WotC fix what's working as intended...?

I do imagine the guidelines and presentation will be updated, but the evidence of completely leaving the Adventure Day elements the same suggests a lot about what WotC data shows.

 

[mamba]

To nitpick about tue made up categories, group 2 is the one that uses the Adventure Day as part of their game and enjoy it.

oops, yes, should have been 3

Groups 1 and 3 would be the one who want a fix...but if they were not a statistically significant portion of the player base, in theory, why would WotC fix what's working as intended...?

I feel most people are in groups 3 and 4, pretty much no one is in 1, and I don’t think I know anyone who is in 2, so fixing it does so for 3 while ruining it for almost no one (whoever is in 2 will be ok with the new one too I guess) and without affecting 4

Won’t happen this time around, that much seems clear

I do imagine the guidelines and presentation will be updated, but the evidence of completely leaving the Adventure Day elements the same suggests a lot about what WotC data shows.

to me all it shows is that compatibility trumped everything, they also did not even ask in the UAs, which indicates that this was decided already

 

[Parmandur]

oops, yes, should have been 3


I feel most people are in groups 3 and 4, pretty much no one is in 1, and I don’t think I know anyone who is in 2, so fixing it does so for 3 while ruining it for almost no one (whoever is in 2 will be ok with the new one too I guess) and without affecting 4

Won’t happen this time around, that much seems clear

You see, that's the thing, we don't know any data about how people might fit into these categories. I don't know anyone in the dissatisfied camp, but anecdotes don't mean much. But again, if WotC data showed groups 1 or 3 were significant, I am sure they would have addressed it. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that 2 and 4 are the predominant, maybe even overwhelmingly predominant, experience of D&D.

 

[jayoungr]

One clue about WotC's attitude toward the adventuring day would be how often they build their published adventures to adhere to it.