Maximizing Bard damage?

[Ryujin]

Okay, you're fellow players are really missing the whole point of the Bard and the game in general. The Bard makes THEIR damage better, not his own. And the party is damage-heavy already without much defense. With only one other ranged character, I'd be tempted to go Prescient Bard with a Greatbow if damage is such a big deal. But again, I think your fellow players are lacking in the cognitive skills when they have three strikers and are worried about damage. The party lacks control and buffs/de-buffs if they're just worried about damage (and possibly healing if you don't maximize that).

Definitely agreed. They see me doing a couple of D6 + attribute bonus, on a Daily, and think that I'm not pulling my weight. I would feel far better going the route of bigger healing and extra saves, with bonuses. Apart from the one at-will I'll likely be concentrating of ranged powers.

Even without having a reasonable RBA the Euphonic Bow PP looks pretty attractive, for giving good ranged support. With most Bard ranged attacks being only 5 or at most 10 squares in reach, making the range equal to the weapon's range is pretty damned good.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In fact, you are not pulling YOUR weight... you are pulling THEIRS...

 

[Caragaran]

The other players should be asking what bouses you give them all the time, you shouldn't have to remind them unless you have given a one round power bonus to attack or damage.

As suggested you should go ranged maximise healing pick buffs debuff and multi class wizard for some hard control.

Some of the things you should consider are those days when you dont get a rest. The rescue the prisoners before they are slaughtered type of things where an extended rest isnt possible. In those circumstance you need control to maximise the party's resources.

You have been left with the unlovable job of being the party's leader and controller all wrapped into one. Thunderwave will be somewhat lacking without a wisdome bonus, you should check out the new essential wizard stuff if you are allowed to use that there are some excellent options.

 

[Caragaran]

Definitely agreed. They see me doing a couple of D6 + attribute bonus, on a Daily, and think that I'm not pulling my weight. I would feel far better going the route of bigger healing and extra saves, with bonuses. Apart from the one at-will I'll likely be concentrating of ranged powers.

Even without having a reasonable RBA the Euphonic Bow PP looks pretty attractive, for giving good ranged support. With most Bard ranged attacks being only 5 or at most 10 squares in reach, making the range equal to the weapon's range is pretty damned good.

Before they even whine about you not pulling your weight take a notebook with you and note down all the bonuses for each attack especially if you change a miss into a hit. So that when they do whinge you can say yeah but I gave out 25 bonnus damage last encounter picked the glass cannon off the floor twice so all his damage after that was mine. pushed all of the enemies into one little space for the socreror to nova so 3 out of the monster hit then were because of me blah blah.

If they cant appreciate you using tactics and buffs after that dont heal them for an encounter and see what happens saying afterward but I can stay up longer if I dont heal you and so do more damage.

Oh and I aren't sure how you planned to get thunderwave but beguilling strands is much better for control and minion clearing (Psychic Damage Close blast 5, int v will, target enemies only, int mod damage, push 3) with that you could hold your action until just before the sorceror and push all the enemy into a nice clump for a blast nova also this goes nicely with psychic lock feat to give a -2 to hit debuff on the enemy.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This thread reminds me on our 3.0/3.5 bard...

his stats averaged at 11, highest attribute 15...

neither dextrous, nor strong not having any direct damage powers...

instead he was giving encounter long +3 or more bonuses on attack and damage, that turned many misses in hits and many "nearly kills" in "kills"

the occasional support cure spell was also helpful...

Noone ever even considered accusing him of not pulling his weight... the ranger/fighter/deepwood sniper and the bladesinger were transformed into damage dealers, the wizard and the cleric could not quite compete with on usual days...

p.s.: You often here me saying here and there, a single +1 to hit or damage is not that important... +3 to both for the whole party in a round where chances to hit are around 10-20% and the number of attacks by the party are high... those bonuses make a world of a difference...

 

[Ryujin]

True about Thunderwave. I was thinking it was push CON bonus in squares, not WIS. I was thinking that I'd use Arcane Initiate to get it, once per encounter. I'm likely better off sticking to Controllerish Bard powers, since there would be no push. I'd also be better off chosing a MC that didn't also give me Arcana, if I went that route.

I'm not seeing Beguilling Strands. Where should I be looking? *EDIT* Ah, nevermind. New Essentials Mage. It isn't in CB yet, which is where I was looking.

Some of us have been RPGing for 30 years, so the fact that everyone else has gotten the idea that damage is king, in 4e, is interesting to say the least.

 

[Riastlin]

Agree that your party is really missing the point. The bard can be very deceptive in its effectiveness, but it certainly helps maximize the party. It reminds me of an encounter with my bard. The Sorc and I were in back and the rest of the party had already acted and charged up ahead when a couple of large rock creatures arose behind us and attacked. The Sorc was up next but delayed, telling me to try to put them next to each other.

I cast Blunder, giving the Sorc a basic attack in the process (which hit due to the bonus) and slid the two creatures together. Sorc then went Nova and by using an AP and two dailies (I believe) killed both of them, as they each went from about 85 HPs to 0 in two character turns. The other players started whooping it up to the Sorc who turned to me and said "Couldn't have done it without the Bard."

Anyhoo, for your group, I would second the recommendation of going with the Prescient Bard and boosting Wis instead (perhaps along with Int). This will also let you get Astral Seal (which will help both with party damage and with the healing). Additionally, with the extra points in the point buy you can get Int high enough to still MC into Wizard and I believe there is a feat that lets you use Cha for all your MC powers (though it may be a racial -- can't recall off the top of my head since I am at work as well).

Focus on control, healing and granting extra attacks and you should be fine. Just tell the canons to deal with it -- particularly if they want to live. BTW, I believe there is a Ranger MC that only requires you to have 13 Str OR 13 Dex, Wis not needed.

 

[Ryujin]

The feat that you're thinking of is Combat Virtuoso and it is open to any Bard build, or race.

If you're thinking of Ranger for Hunter's Quarry then either of the Warlock multiclasses will give equivalent curse damage, while maintaining more optimized stats for Bard. *EDIT* Sorry, just Student of Malediction gives Curse.

 

[Riastlin]

Aye, I agree that Warlock is the better option stat-wise, I was just responding to an earlier post about needing 13 Wis for Ranger.

 

[Ryujin]

Ah. Gotcha.