Mechanics of Revived Settings; your thoughts?

[DammitVictor]

The DMG provides special Optional Rules to cover the unique effects of each plane, such as the Feywild being able to warp your memories and shift time on you, or the Beastlands turning you into an animal and increasing your hunting skills, or Ysgard allowing you to fight to the death and come back, Hades turning you into a larva, the Abyss and the Nine Hells changing your alignment to their flavor of evil, and so forth; just point the players towards these and that gets all the flavor of being in the planes across without the overabundance of rules that each plane had, and without being quite as lethal as AD&D.

You know... just a little bit more guidance on that, combined with some random elements-- "what, you thought you knew something, cutter?"-- could make something delicious.

 

[Remathilis]

What I want (mechanically)

Greyhawk. Nothing? Is there any sort of thing not currently supported?

Mystara. Hmmm. Tortle and [-]rakasta[/-]tabaxi already exist, so maybe lupin and aranea. The entirety of the Mystara Monstrous Compendium should be converted as monsters or races though.

Dragonlance. The Kender subrace for halfling, minotaurs, knights of Solomnia subclasses, wizard of the Order subclass.

Eberron. Mystic, Artificer, Warforged, Kalashtar, Shifter, Changling, and Dragonmarks.

Nentir Vale/4e. Vryloka.

Birthright. I can't speak to it, don't know it.

Spelljammer. Same.

Planescape. Rogue Modron and Bariaur races. Faction Abilities.

Ravenloft. Half-Vistani (or straight-up Vistani racial stats), Calibans, Anchorite/Mists domain, and a bunch of backgrounds (gypsy, avenger, arcanist/occultist, etc)

Dark Sun. A separate game, 5e compatible, that would have its own player's guide and and GM/Monster guide and can build the races, classes, monsters, magic and equipment it needs without ever needing or referencing the PHB/DMG/MM.

 

[cbwjm]

Considering how much of the PHB a darksun book would have to replicate, I'd rather it referenced the PHB rather than repeating everything.

 

[Remathilis]

Considering how much of the PHB a darksun book would have to replicate, I'd rather it referenced the PHB rather than repeating everything.

Really, the only things it would need to replicate would be Chapter 1 (6 pages), parts of chapter 4 (up to the backgrounds, 4 pages), possibly chapter 6 (9 pages), chapters 7, 8 and 9 (28 pages), chapter 10 (6 pages) and about 80% of chapter 11 (80 pages, but probably closer to 60-70 when you cut all the non-appropriate spells. If the Dark Sun Player's Guide was equal to the PHB (320 pages), we're talking only 120 some pages of replicated rules and nearly 200 pages to devote to new or converted appropriate material. You'd have a Chapter 2 that has only Athasian races (including mechanically appropriate versions of elves, dwarves, and halflings), A Chapter 3 that has Athasian-appropriate versions of the Barbarian, Bard (with no spells), Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, and Wizard (with room for templar and mystic perhaps) each with thematic and appropriate subclasses. A Chapter 4 with world-correct backgrounds (no Acolytes or "feed people for free" outlanders), a Chapter 5 with Athasian equipment (and weapon breakage rules) and even some room for an overview of the setting.

Because, as far as I can tell, most of those 200 pages of races and classes are a waste in a Dark Sun game anyway. So you might as well, just make a proper Player's Guide and insert the duplicate third of the book than have two books in which one is 67% useless.

 

[cbwjm]

Really, the only things it would need to replicate would be Chapter 1 (6 pages), parts of chapter 4 (up to the backgrounds, 4 pages), possibly chapter 6 (9 pages), chapters 7, 8 and 9 (28 pages), chapter 10 (6 pages) and about 80% of chapter 11 (80 pages, but probably closer to 60-70 when you cut all the non-appropriate spells. If the Dark Sun Player's Guide was equal to the PHB (320 pages), we're talking only 120 some pages of replicated rules and nearly 200 pages to devote to new or converted appropriate material. You'd have a Chapter 2 that has only Athasian races (including mechanically appropriate versions of elves, dwarves, and halflings), A Chapter 3 that has Athasian-appropriate versions of the Barbarian, Bard (with no spells), Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, and Wizard (with room for templar and mystic perhaps) each with thematic and appropriate subclasses. A Chapter 4 with world-correct backgrounds (no Acolytes or "feed people for free" outlanders), a Chapter 5 with Athasian equipment (and weapon breakage rules) and even some room for an overview of the setting.

Because, as far as I can tell, most of those 200 pages of races and classes are a waste in a Dark Sun game anyway. So you might as well, just make a proper Player's Guide and insert the duplicate third of the book than have two books in which one is 67% useless.

The majority of classes and their subclasses are appropriate for dark sun. There is no reason not to include battlemasters, champions, land druids, every wizard tradition, every rogue subclass, etc. Really the only classes that don't fit in well are the bard, if you're going on the original athasian bard had no spellcasting, the paladin, and maybe the monk. You can keep pretty much every spell, the only thing that would really change in the magic chapter is the addition of defiling.

I'd rather they reference the PHB and then spend a few pages showing what is different. Before moving in with the new subclasses like elemental cleric domains or perhaps listing which domains belong to which element.

 

[Eltab]

Elemental Domains for the Cleric. Maybe even Paraelemental.

I played a Druid through the 4e Ashes of Athas campaign. He was optimized around the "Guide a Caravan" and "Survive the Desert" skill challenges.
I almost never wildshaped, I put down big zones to mess up the enemies and help my allies. I was trying to create a bottomless pool of Healing Surges.
I made a non-campaign-specific version of him that turned into a "Druid of the Winds."

His fluff by the end of the campaign was "Silt Druid". He might have been pretty close to a paraelemental cleric.

 

[Eltab]

Really the only classes that don't fit in well are the bard, if you're going on the original athasian bard had no spellcasting, the paladin, and maybe the monk.

If ki = "psionics by another name", the 5e Monk is OK for Dark Sun.
In fact, slave revolt organizers would have good reason to teach their secret agents the Way of the Open Hand - since oppressed laborers aren't usually allowed to own weapons.

 

[Remathilis]

The majority of classes and their subclasses are appropriate for dark sun. There is no reason not to include battlemasters, champions, land druids, every wizard tradition, every rogue subclass, etc. Really the only classes that don't fit in well are the bard, if you're going on the original athasian bard had no spellcasting, the paladin, and maybe the monk. You can keep pretty much every spell, the only thing that would really change in the magic chapter is the addition of defiling.

I'd rather they reference the PHB and then spend a few pages showing what is different. Before moving in with the new subclasses like elemental cleric domains or perhaps listing which domains belong to which element.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've been told by people who were a lot more invested in Dark Sun that near every class and race woulrd need re-writing to make it fit the setting; for example barbarians are game breaking because they can get high ACs without armor, or warlocks can't work because there are no fey/fiends/whatever to deal with (other than the Dragon Kings, but they already have Templ

However, if you're cool with the 3.5/Dragon Mag and 4e versions of Dark Sun that carved out exceptions for every class and a huge swath of races (just with some new subraces and subclasses) then I'm much cooler with just a supplement or chapter in a big settings supplement. Those two versions found a way to even justify paladins, spellcasting bards, warlocks, tieflings, and dragonborn.

However, if we're going to stay married to the original 2e box set and can never evolve past it; make it its own game and spare us the headaches.

 

[cbwjm]

If ki = "psionics by another name", the 5e Monk is OK for Dark Sun.
In fact, slave revolt organizers would have good reason to teach their secret agents the Way of the Open Hand - since oppressed laborers aren't usually allowed to own weapons.

Yeah, that's kind of why I said maybe. I was thinking specifically of the psionic monk kit in 2e as a way of fitting them in. They also fit in well in 4e.

 

[cbwjm]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've been told by people who were a lot more invested in Dark Sun that near every class and race woulrd need re-writing to make it fit the setting; for example barbarians are game breaking because they can get high ACs without armor, or warlocks can't work because there are no fey/fiends/whatever to deal with (other than the Dragon Kings, but they already have Templ

However, if you're cool with the 3.5/Dragon Mag and 4e versions of Dark Sun that carved out exceptions for every class and a huge swath of races (just with some new subraces and subclasses) then I'm much cooler with just a supplement or chapter in a big settings supplement. Those two versions found a way to even justify paladins, spellcasting bards, warlocks, tieflings, and dragonborn.

However, if we're going to stay married to the original 2e box set; make it its own game and spare us the headaches.

I'm talking about 2e. Most of the classes in the PHB fit fine in darksun using the 2e as a guide.