Metamagics and Ice Axe

[Pasus Nauran]

A cleric in the campaign I'm part of has Divine Metamagic (Maximize Spell), and Divine Metamagic (Empower Spell), as well a large number of Turn Undead attempts per day.

He's recently reached 5th level, and gained access to the spell "Ice Axe" from the Spell Compendium.

Though he hasn't really had the opportunity to use it yet, he's been talking about the fact he'll be able to Maximize and Empower Ice Axe, so it'll deal a fairly hideous amount of damage with each touch-attack swing.

This seems overpowered to me, but I'm interested in knowing whether a spell like Ice Axe (in which you conjure a weapon that deals variable damage) could actually be Empowered or Maximized.

 

[Christian]

Why wouldn't you? He'll have to spend a 5th-level slot to Empower it, a 6th-level slot to Maximize it, or an 8th-level slot to do both. If you compare those enhanced Ice Axes to other spells of those levels, I don't think you'll find it overpowered.

(If he's getting those for 'free' using Divine Metamagic, that's another story. If you think that's broken, it may be the Divine Metamagic feats that are causing the problem, though.)

(Not, by the way, that Ice Axe isn't a damn fine 3rd-level spell. Our dwarf cleric has great fun with it. )

 

[akbearfoot]

He has empower spell, maximize spell, and Divine metamagic x 2?

That's 4 feats when a 5th level priest normally gets only 3 feats IF he's human...all of which are completely useless from first through 4th level.

And at the most he should only have 8 (3 + charisma bonus) or so turn attempts unless his stats are ungodly and he's got magic items that are worth way more than he should have. If he's got the undeath domain that could be another 4 turn attempts, but I didnt think that was a standard option for non-PRC clerics.


If he's been given free feats, and or allowed to cheeze the flaws rules for freebies AND the DM allowed divine metamagic, then just ditch yoru character and make a Druid with greenbound summoning and you'll be fine....the game is already over

 

[Patlin]

If you interpret ice axe as summoning a weapon, I wouldn't allow maximize or empower to effect the weapon damage of the summoned weapon. Similarly, you can maximize a summoning spell to get the maximum number of creatures when summoning from a lower level list, but it won't effect the damage the summoned creatures do on their attacks.

I suppose I could be convinced Ice Axe is doing spell damage with each swing, but I'd want to reread the spell first.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A cleric in the campaign I'm part of has Divine Metamagic (Maximize Spell), and Divine Metamagic (Empower Spell), as well a large number of Turn Undead attempts per day.

He's recently reached 5th level...

Hang on...

A cleric doesn't get many feats. One at 1st, one at 3rd, maybe one for being human.

It sounds like the cleric you're describing has at least five: Empower Spell, Divine Metamagic (Empower Spell), Maximize Spell, Divine Metamagic (Maximize Spell), and Extra Turning.

Are you guys using flaws-for-feats, or some other extra feat house rule?

Edit - gah. That's what I get for opening a bunch of threads and then replying to them one at a time

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I suppose I could be convinced Ice Axe is doing spell damage with each swing, but I'd want to reread the spell first.

It's a "battleaxe-shaped formation of swirling ice shards".

I'd treat it the same way as Flame Blade, personally, meaning I'd allow the damage to be Empowered.

My rule of thumb is that if damage is defined in the spell text, it's spell damage; if it references or repeats damage defined elsewhere, it isn't.

So Flame Blade, which defines the damage dealt by the spell, deals spell damage; Shillelagh, which deals damage as a club two size categories larger, is not dealing spell damage - even though it states what damage a Medium Shillelagh, this is repetition of information, not definition of information.

Summon Monster IV, the damage is not empowered - if we want to know what damage a Celestial Lion deals, we need to look in the Monster Manual. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, the damage is empowered - it's defined in the spell description.

To my knowledge, this isn't written down anywhere; it's just a rule of thumb I use to maintain consistency on what is and is not a random numeric effect of a spell.

-Hyp.

 

[mikebr99]

FYI... to the OP

Divine Metamagic was errata'd so that you need to take the meta feat before you take the DM for that feat...

Mike