greywulf
First Post
UPDATE: the server is a happy bunny again, so I've uploaded Rank20 .pdf and .rtf and put the download links on the Summary of lite systems page.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming
- Thread starter greywulf
- Start date
kensanata
Explorer
There's something I've been wondering about the core combat rules: Why is combat with two weapons and combat using DEX instead of STR to-hit reserved for fighters and rogues? Other rules such as multiple attacks with cumulative -5 or the use of two-handed weapons are not similarly restricted. And fighters already get +1 for every five levels. Is this a rule that is supposed to simulate some D&D rule, or is this rule supposed to enforce class concept? If so, I'd propose to drop those limitations in the next revision...
greywulf
First Post
The theory behind it was to simulate the most likely feats that a light-weapon wielding Fighter or Rogue would take - Weapon Finesse and Two-Weapon Fighting. I wanted to reflect a Fighter's proficiency and a Rogue's skill with light weapons. As it stands, a Mage or Cleric can use any weapon at all without penalty - meaning sword-wielding Magi don't need to multi-class, so no multi-class rules were needed in Core, and a Cleric can use the Chosen weapon of their God without penalty. I figured giving them more of a buff in combat than that was pushing it.
Outside an Oriental-style setting where I'd judge anyone can wield weapons specifically designed as a weapon pair (tonfa, sai, etc), I'd be wary of giving those benefits to spell-slingers as their power-level plays just fine as it is.
In combat, Fighters are the best thanks to their +1 attack and damage (simulating any number of feats a D&D Fighter would take), then Rogues as they can also use two-weapons and benefit form their typically high DEX with light weapons. Next up is Clerics because of their ability to use armour, then Magi - though a Magi in Mage Armour wielding a Greatsword is a sight to behold!
I have a player in my game who's playing a Magi with a Greatsword who's running him as a Pictish Warrior. He's covered in Woad, almost naked and calls spirits from the campfire, effigies around his neck and the earth itself to aid him in combat. Scary, but brilliant.
All characters get multiple attacks after their total attack bonus reaches +6, just taking a -5 on each additional attack after the first. If you really, really wanted a two-weapon wielding Mage there's no reason why you couldn't apportion those additional attacks between a weapon in each hand. So a Magi wielding paired shortswords could hit with the first at +7 and the other one at +2, say. At lower levels they just don't have the training, though theoretically a STR 18 Magi could manage two attacks at +6/+1 by level 2.
Make sense?
In contrast, a 2nd level Fighter with STR 18 could use those shortswords at +7/+2 (thanks to their +1), or +5/+5 because of their Two-Weapon Fighting training.
Of course, I'm open to be convinced, but feel that making TWF and Light weapon use open to anyone, you're weakening the Fighter and Rogue rather than improving the game..... but what do I know?
Outside an Oriental-style setting where I'd judge anyone can wield weapons specifically designed as a weapon pair (tonfa, sai, etc), I'd be wary of giving those benefits to spell-slingers as their power-level plays just fine as it is.
In combat, Fighters are the best thanks to their +1 attack and damage (simulating any number of feats a D&D Fighter would take), then Rogues as they can also use two-weapons and benefit form their typically high DEX with light weapons. Next up is Clerics because of their ability to use armour, then Magi - though a Magi in Mage Armour wielding a Greatsword is a sight to behold!
I have a player in my game who's playing a Magi with a Greatsword who's running him as a Pictish Warrior. He's covered in Woad, almost naked and calls spirits from the campfire, effigies around his neck and the earth itself to aid him in combat. Scary, but brilliant.
All characters get multiple attacks after their total attack bonus reaches +6, just taking a -5 on each additional attack after the first. If you really, really wanted a two-weapon wielding Mage there's no reason why you couldn't apportion those additional attacks between a weapon in each hand. So a Magi wielding paired shortswords could hit with the first at +7 and the other one at +2, say. At lower levels they just don't have the training, though theoretically a STR 18 Magi could manage two attacks at +6/+1 by level 2.
Make sense?
In contrast, a 2nd level Fighter with STR 18 could use those shortswords at +7/+2 (thanks to their +1), or +5/+5 because of their Two-Weapon Fighting training.
Of course, I'm open to be convinced, but feel that making TWF and Light weapon use open to anyone, you're weakening the Fighter and Rogue rather than improving the game..... but what do I know?
Ry
Explorer
Oh, I misread TWF as Two-handed fighting above.
TWF I think should be Fighter & Rogue only... but honestly, I don't think TWF rules need to be in the core (I avoided them in Rank20) because you can have perfectly good fantasy games without them, and I find it impacts the design of regular fighting in order to accomodate TWF.
TWF I think should be Fighter & Rogue only... but honestly, I don't think TWF rules need to be in the core (I avoided them in Rank20) because you can have perfectly good fantasy games without them, and I find it impacts the design of regular fighting in order to accomodate TWF.
kensanata
Explorer
Thanks for your thoughts on this, Greywulf. Duly copied to the Macropedia and edited slightly.
Ry
Explorer
I would like to donate the following scenario idea to the creative commons:
Defend the station against crack commandos with your slightly genemodded mutant selves - but you've got to do it in such a way that they won't just send more.
Serenity Lost is a station of ex-military personnel and lost colonists from a nearby failed terraforming. They have, as a community, converted to Trancendental Evolutionary Vajrayana - it was the tools of genetic engineering that allowed them to survive despite their dearth of food, raw materials, and oxygen.
The scenario opens with the monks that went to the diplomatic meeting arriving home with the bad news that it was fruitless. The central government will not relent, and if their demands were met, the people of Serenity Lost would be "relocated" to an earthlike planet where they would be consigned to a life of chronic illness without their biotech.
The murmur goes through the crowd of assembled monastics - "what happens next?"
Their diplomat - an ex-military man and respected almost as much as their old master - raises his hands for silence. "They will not act openly - we know that, because we were once part of them. It will be a black op, which means a small ship - and commandos, with a mission to kill us, and make it look like an accident. We must make ready to protect ourselves."
Now the old master speaks: "We seek harmony with all beings. We must not fear the men of the government, even if they come against us."
As if on cue, an explosion is heard, jarring the station. Lights flash, then go out. Those with military experience recognize that a boarding party is arriving on the expansive Serenity Lost at this very moment - and without advanced armaments, the monks have no hope in a direct confrontation.
In the dark moment, before the dim of the auxiliary lights can be made out, the monks hear the master's last words: "Instead, we will teach them."
Defend the station against crack commandos with your slightly genemodded mutant selves - but you've got to do it in such a way that they won't just send more.
Serenity Lost is a station of ex-military personnel and lost colonists from a nearby failed terraforming. They have, as a community, converted to Trancendental Evolutionary Vajrayana - it was the tools of genetic engineering that allowed them to survive despite their dearth of food, raw materials, and oxygen.
The scenario opens with the monks that went to the diplomatic meeting arriving home with the bad news that it was fruitless. The central government will not relent, and if their demands were met, the people of Serenity Lost would be "relocated" to an earthlike planet where they would be consigned to a life of chronic illness without their biotech.
The murmur goes through the crowd of assembled monastics - "what happens next?"
Their diplomat - an ex-military man and respected almost as much as their old master - raises his hands for silence. "They will not act openly - we know that, because we were once part of them. It will be a black op, which means a small ship - and commandos, with a mission to kill us, and make it look like an accident. We must make ready to protect ourselves."
Now the old master speaks: "We seek harmony with all beings. We must not fear the men of the government, even if they come against us."
As if on cue, an explosion is heard, jarring the station. Lights flash, then go out. Those with military experience recognize that a boarding party is arriving on the expansive Serenity Lost at this very moment - and without advanced armaments, the monks have no hope in a direct confrontation.
In the dark moment, before the dim of the auxiliary lights can be made out, the monks hear the master's last words: "Instead, we will teach them."
Ry
Explorer
greywulf said:
And a REALLY good set of maps for that space station, full of environmental elements the PCs can exploit and strategic points (life support room, timed detonators in keys spots, etc.)
As for art, if I make it, it has to be instantly perfect! I must now commit seppuku in penance for my transgressions!
(Looks at katana)
:\ Well, maybe later.
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