Mike Mearls Happy Fun Hour: The Warlord

[Jester David]

Bards and Warlords coexisted in 4e just fine. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to in 5e.

4e was an edition a LOT less concerned about flavour and tonal overlap though. You had the warlord steal the thunder of the bard (and their place in the PHB1), you had the invoker that was basically a wizard... of the gods, the avenger that was basically a holy rogue, the runepriest that was a dwarven cleric, the seeker than was a magical ranger, the swordmage was a wizard that good at surviving melee. Etcetera, etchetera, etcetera.

The sneakiest character in the game should be the rogue. The smartest character in the game should be the wizard. The toughest character in the game should be a barbarian. The character best in the wilds should be the ranger. The character best at fighting should be the fighter. Etc. Every class has something it should be the best at. It's wheelhouse.

The problem in 5e is that the bard, by it's nature, doesn't do a lot of unique things. It's always been a rogue/wizard with a minstrel feel (with a dash of fighter). So it does roguey things and wizardy things. The one unique thing it does is inspire people. (Which is already a feat.) But it should be the best at inspiring people.

So what is the warlord best at? It can't be inspiring people then. So if the design focuses on that, it's making a character that can never be the best at its role. Like a new class that's a less sneaky rogue or a barbarian that isn't as angry. Otherwise, again, it's a class making another class irrelevant.

Ideally, the design of the class should be flexible enough that you could make Charisma your second or third highest Ability Score and still be inspiring if you chose.
And instead of being the best at inspiring people, the warlord could be the best at directing people. The best at tactics and strategy. The best at commanding people.

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

Here's the description from 3.5.

Marshals inspire trust in those they lead. They earn that trust by slogging through harsh landscapes, dangerous battlefields, and haunted catacombs along with those under their command. With a look, they can see where to best deploy their resources or come up with a sneaky ruse to fool their enemies. A marshal has a tactician's mind, a cartographer's overview of the disputed landscape (or dungeon warren), and a way with words that can inspire battle-hardened fighters to give it their all when melee breaks out.

Trained in the basics of fighting, marshals possess a general knowledge of weapons and armor. Their real strength is their ability to lead those who follow them to success they might not otherwise reach in combat. Marshals make passable warriors themselves, when personal danger finds them.


And from 4e.

Warlords are accomplished and competent battle leaders. Warlords stand on the front line issuing commands and bolstering their allies while leading the battle with weapon in hand. Warlords know how to rally a team to win a fight. Your ability to lead others to victory is a direct result of your history. You could be a minor warchief looking to make a name for yourself, a pious knight-commander on leave from your militant order, a youthful noble eager to apply years of training to life outside the castle walls, a calculating mercenary captain, or a courageous marshal of the borderlands who fights to protect the frontier. Regardless of your background, you are a skillful warrior with an uncanny gift for leadership.

Your leadership takes the form of quick commands, cunning strategies, and tactical superiority. Your powers guide your allies to extra and more powerful attacks, as well as helping them move quickly in combat situations. You also assist your allies by moving your enemies around or knocking them prone. You use Strength for your attack powers, so make that your best ability score. Intelligence is secondary, because your Intelligence determines just how effective a leader you are. Charisma should be your third best score

So then they are a fighter subclass then. Every bit of that flavor text says yeah this is a fighter subclass.

 

[mellored]

So then they are a fighter subclass then. Every bit of that flavor text says yeah this is a fighter subclass.

The 3.5 marhsal had the same attacks as the as the 3.5 cleric.

"Trained in the basics of fighting" is not the same as being a full fighter.

 

[Remathilis]

The 3.5 marhsal had the same attacks as the as the 3.5 cleric.

"Trained in the basics of fighting" is not the same as being a full fighter.

The 3.5 marshal was also a fairly badly designed class. I'm pretty sure it could have benefited from a d10 hd and full Bab.

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

The 3.5 marhsal had the same attacks as the as the 3.5 cleric.

"Trained in the basics of fighting" is not the same as being a full fighter.

I will say the marshal is the less fightery of the two, but honestly just sounds like the valor Bard. The warlord as described is straight up a fighter subclass.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Personally, I see the warlord abilities in from most important to less important:
Charisma › Intelligence › Strength.

I suspect it should vary with sub-class (and gambit), as it did in 4e. Plus, in 5e the STR/DEX decision is pretty seamless.

WIS covers perception and insight in D&D, unlike some other games that use int for per, so it could also be a focus for 'know your enemy' type gambits.

That would make an attempt at a generalist godwarlord (in the godwizard sense, not that there's any plausible risk of that) MAD, as well.

 

[Mistwell]

Thank you for not reading another word of my post and then completely going off on a wild tangent if your own making.

How come you never thank me when I do that to you?

I feel neglected.

 

[Remathilis]

How come you never thank me when I do that to you?

I feel neglected.

It would require me actually reading what you wrote. ;-)

 

[smbakeresq]

Paladins normally use spell slots for smites anyway. Switching spell slots for a nonmagical use, I doubt anyone would notice much difference.

That depends. Paladins will use Aura of Life, and will use Spirit Guardians as it is the best reason to take Crown. Bless is always great. But I get your point.

A nonmagical Bless effect for a Warlord aura would be great, especially if it is based of CHR or INT. But it could also be way overpowered, so it would need limited use. INT might affect to hit rolls, CHR might affect damage.

I would prefer THP granting, instead of healing. THP is proactive and would be unique to the Warlord, but no amount of inspiration or brains will help you when at 0 HP. When playing a Paladin I always take Inspiring Leader, that's just way to much temp HP to give up every short rest, I could see that feat being removed and given as class power to Warlords or something along those lines. I could see granting temp HP using the hit dice mechanic i.e. limited to 1/2 HD per long rest but you get CON and Durable bonus.


I would greatly prefer a warlord class, its exactly how I play every Paladin. Aid stacked with Inspiring Leader is a large chuck of HP for some classes, and is a subtle but effective tactic.


As a sort of playtest, I will run my Crown paladin (5th level now)

1. using "bless" all the time but with my CHR mod as opposed to 1d4. CHR to damage I think would work best as its more of a "Bravura" type
2. Inspiring leader whenever possible.
3. Aid right off the bat every day.
4. No smites.
5. A few other things that I think of.

 

[smbakeresq]

As a side note, Mearls decision to base Warlord off the fighter chassis is a mistake IMO. Action Surge is the iconic fighter talent, as is 3 and then 4 attacks per round and more feats or ABI.

I could see it if you could give your action surge to another person to use. But you want the fighter to be distinctive, and that’s what makes it distinctive.

I get the arguments that BM can be the warlord, but it really isn’t . Action economy isn’t in favor of Commanders strike, the movement one is too situational, and the superiority dice favor using them in other ways.

IMO the fighter chassis is too strong in essence to use as a warlord chassis and then add other stuff on top of it.