Mimicking WotC's layout design, fonts, etc. . .

[fissionessence]

I can tell, but mostly because I spent a couple days trying to exactly reproduce 4E's design. cdrcjsn is correct that the first one is the copy; the primary giveaway is the 'flavor text'; WotC uses Mentor Italic (non-sans) there, whereas you used the Mentor Sans with OpenOffice Writer's automated italic feature rather than the actual Mentor Sans Italic font. Also I think the font sizes and indentation are a little off.

Anyway, you've made your point, though; it's definitely within the realm of possibility to make your own stat blocks look pretty awesome (with some hindrances like getting the font), and I have to agree that the SRD absolutely seems to indicate that 3PPs are welcome to imitate their design for stat blocks.

For my own product, I'm still trying to decide whether I should keep the 4E style stat blocks I've made or come up with my own to more easily integrate and match the rest of the design. The latter option seems preferable, but I can't so easily turn down the idea of making my stuff look more 'official'.

Oh, and to cdrcjsn: The diamond separator is from a wingdings or webdings font, although I forget which one now.

~

 

[BlindOgre]

I can tell, but mostly because I spent a couple days trying to exactly reproduce 4E's design. cdrcjsn is correct that the first one is the copy; the primary giveaway is the 'flavor text'; WotC uses Mentor Italic (non-sans) there, whereas you used the Mentor Sans with OpenOffice Writer's automated italic feature rather than the actual Mentor Sans Italic font. Also I think the font sizes and indentation are a little off.

Anyway, you've made your point, though; it's definitely within the realm of possibility to make your own stat blocks look pretty awesome (with some hindrances like getting the font), and I have to agree that the SRD absolutely seems to indicate that 3PPs are welcome to imitate their design for stat blocks.

For my own product, I'm still trying to decide whether I should keep the 4E style stat blocks I've made or come up with my own to more easily integrate and match the rest of the design. The latter option seems preferable, but I can't so easily turn down the idea of making my stuff look more 'official'.

Oh, and to cdrcjsn: The diamond separator is from a wingdings or webdings font, although I forget which one now.

~

You are both right, of course. I figured the flavor text would give it away as I have yet to buy the correct Mentor Italic font.

The curvy diamond is from ZapfDingbatsITC. Also, the faded background on the flavor text is just an image fill from a gradient created in PaintShop Pro.
I'll post when I've got it dead-on, if for no other reason than to demonstrate that it can be done fairly easily.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Two questions for you guys:

1) Where would I get those fonts? I'm sure I could find them with a bit of Googling, but I didn't know if there were any sites that (A) would have them all in one place and (B) you'd recommend. I'm writing a program that includes a power card generator, so having those would help with making close-to-PHB powers.

2) Do you happen to know what the color codes are for the power cards, both the red and black headers and the brownish background? I could try to reproduce it, but if you already know the colors I might as well get them from you and save myself the time.

 

[Marius Delphus]

1) I happen to have posted this in another thread:

Text font: Monotype Mentor
Table font: Monotype Mentor Sans
http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/detail.htm?pid=420263
(Yes, the price is for real.)

Minor heading font: DNDLolthSC based on Scriptorium Ravenna
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/scriptorium/ravenna/

Major heading font: DNDVecnaSC based on "Textura"
(Haven't located this; Scott Rouse said the fonts are Mentor, Ravenna, and Textura)

However, I recommend picking your own fonts. Making an exact copy of what WOTC's already done is less impressive than doing something of your own and making it conform to more general guidelines of usability and attractiveness. (Personally, it doesn't impress me one bit, but I readily admit to being a corner case in the matter.)

2) Well, black would be black of course. In the image posted, the RGB values for the red are 132, 32, 45. The brownish color is a gradient ramp from 191, 190, 170 (on the left) to white (on the right).

But again, why not pick your own colors? As long as you're in the same general neighborhood as WOTC (for the header bars -- that is, as long as you have easy-to-identify "red," "green," and "black") you should be fine; you can do something different with the gradient ramps (make it solid? make it a tint of the header bar color? make a subtle pattern of some kind? go with divider lines instead?) that might help make it "your own" design rather than "yet another copy of WOTC's" design.

In short, I recommend you show us what *you* can do; we already know what WOTC did.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

1) I happen to have posted this in another thread:

Text font: Monotype Mentor
Table font: Monotype Mentor Sans
http://www.fonts.com/FindFonts/detail.htm?pid=420263
(Yes, the price is for real.)

I don't suppose you can download one or two of those for a much lower price...or can you only buy fonts in families?

EDIT: Looking around, it appears you can get individual fonts for as little as (!) $39 US. And I apparently need 3 fonts for true-to-PHB cards...Oy. I might have to make people pay for this thing after all.

However, I recommend picking your own fonts. Making an exact copy of what WOTC's already done is less impressive than doing something of your own and making it conform to more general guidelines of usability and attractiveness. (Personally, it doesn't impress me one bit, but I readily admit to being a corner case in the matter.)

The issue with the design is that I said "One feature I can add is making power cards; would people like that?" and posters said "We want stat blocks that look just like the PHB ones!" So while I can make them look however I want, it seems the end users want true-to-PHB cards.

2) Well, black would be black of course.

Couldn't tell if they're actually black or a dark gray; good to know it's just plain old black.

In the image posted, the RGB values for the red are 132, 32, 45. The brownish color is a gradient ramp from 191, 190, 170 (on the left) to white (on the right).

Thanks.

But again, why not pick your own colors? As long as you're in the same general neighborhood as WOTC (for the header bars -- that is, as long as you have easy-to-identify "red," "green," and "black") you should be fine; you can do something different with the gradient ramps (make it solid? make it a tint of the header bar color? make a subtle pattern of some kind? go with divider lines instead?) that might help make it "your own" design rather than "yet another copy of WOTC's" design.

In short, I recommend you show us what *you* can do; we already know what WOTC did.

Well, I'm already planning on just doing solid colors, because Java and gradient text backgrounds aren't really on speaking terms, but like I said it isn't for my benefit. If I were just going "Hey guys, power card maker!" I'd experiment, but people have asked specifically for true-to-PHB cards, and that's what I promised I'd try to do.

 

[Marius Delphus]

So while I can make them look however I want, it seems the end users want true-to-PHB cards.

Guess I missed that bit; I beg your pardon. Again, I readily admit to being a corner case in the matter and this almost certainly colors (no pun intended) my preference.

Couldn't tell if they're actually black or a dark gray; good to know it's just plain old black.

I remember hearing that it was *supposed* to be black, and if that's true, then what probably happened with the colored header bars in the PHB is that the PDF specified CMYK Black (0, 0, 0, 100) rather than a Rich Black (which contains splashes of the other three inks), and so it *looks* dark grey.

Glad I could help, if only a bit.

 

[Jraynack]

1) However, I recommend picking your own fonts. Making an exact copy of what WOTC's already done is less impressive than doing something of your own and making it conform to more general guidelines of usability and attractiveness.

In short, I recommend you show us what *you* can do; we already know what WOTC did.

I agree wholeheartedly on this matter. Although I find it important to implement some of the 4th Edition layout for consistency it is far more important to show who you are as a 3PP.

We, at Alea Publishing Group, chose to follow suit with the simplicity of their layout, while maintaining some of our elaborate trademarks we are known for (the wax seal page numbers).

I think importance of the colors is significant for 4th Edition products, but font and layout design is a chance to show customers your distinct personality. There are a lot of great free fonts out there (I spent many hours, and hours, and . . . infinite) as well as free font makers - I even designed our own attack icons just in case WotC does not allow use of theirs.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Guess I missed that bit; I beg your pardon. Again, I readily admit to being a corner case in the matter and this almost certainly colors (no pun intended) my preference.

No problem; I didn't mention it the first time around.

I remember hearing that it was *supposed* to be black, and if that's true, then what probably happened with the colored header bars in the PHB is that the PDF specified CMYK Black (0, 0, 0, 100) rather than a Rich Black (which contains splashes of the other three inks), and so it *looks* dark grey.

Glad I could help, if only a bit.

Yeah, I thought it was a washed-out black, but I wasn't sure if it was intentionally lighter.

I agree wholeheartedly on this matter. Although I find it important to implement some of the 4th Edition layout for consistency it is far more important to show who you are as a 3PP.

Aw, you guys are giving me way too much credit. I'm just working up a little program to help homebrewers (the DM's Toolkit, if you're interested, though its release has been held up for a month due to WotC shenanigans) and I'm not planning to actually publish power cards in a PDF or anything, just something that will let people make their own.

 

[fissionessence]

Sampled directly from the leaked pdf, the power heading colors are as follows:
at-will: R 91; G 143; B 98
encounter: R 129; G 28; B 50 (very close to what Marius Delphus posted in post 14; not sure where the disparity is here or who's 'right')
daily: R 65; G 67; B 66 — That's a light enough gray that I can't imagine they meant for it to be completely black at any point. It's also interesting [to me] that it isn't a strict gray, but instead has a little extra blue and green.

And BlindOgre, thanks for the correction on the diamond! I just spliced that character into my Mentor Sans Bold font so that I can just use a | and the diamond pops up without changing fonts

~

EDIT: On second thought, the disparity between the encounter header colors is probably there because I'm pretty sure BlindOgre scanned his PHB to get that Cleric power. The scanning process probably threw off the color just a bit. I was also going to add that it looks like the scanner auto-sharpened the PHB version, which is another giveaway which is his version (because it is straight from his document editor and has no such flaws). It's also worth noting that my sampling of BlindOgre's scan gives me: R 143; G 33; B 46 and a sampling of his version gives me: R 139; G 18; B 49. This give me four different sets of numbers for the encounter power; this has to tell you something . . . although I don't really know what. I guess just pick your favorite

~

 

[jelmore]

The first one is yours? Total Guess.

Btw, how in the world do you get the little star symbol for the keyword entry?

The first one is definitely his; I work with fonts all day long and, while I'm not a complete font guru, I could spot the differences right off. (It also helps that I'd already located the correct fonts and have been tinkering with my own project, and have been staring at then for several weeks.) The biggest difference is that the flavor text for the power in the PHB is actually Mentor Italic, not Mentor Sans Italic; look at the lower-case "g" characters and you'll see the difference.

As for the four-pointed star it's Unicode character U+2726 ( HTML entity દ ) -- I'm not sure if there's a keyboard shortcut to get it, but you should be able to find it in a character palette app; Mac OS X has one accessible from the International control panel, but I don't know where the Windows one is. I can tell you that the OpenType versions of Mentor Sans and Mentor Standard have that character glyph, as I don't use Zapf Dingbats in my project.