D&D General Monk: The Past, Present, and Questionable Future of an Iconic Class

Theory of Games

Disaffected Game Warrior
Insulting other members
YOU had that craziness, not everyone else in the community. Don't try and force it on us now. Take Kung-Fu Joe and play with that doll by yourself in the mud. It's okay. I won't judge you for doing it because Brian Blume made you. I get you OSR types like that kind of thing. Just be respectful and don't bring it to my table.
 

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Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
YOU had that craziness, not everyone else in the community. Don't try and force it on us now. Take Kung-Fu Joe and play with that doll by yourself in the mud. It's okay. I won't judge you for doing it because Brian Blume made you. I get you OSR types like that kind of thing. Just be respectful and don't bring it to my table.
Nah, c'mon cobber. Let's do this. Let's play this game

Let's look at who else apparently doesn't exist in your D&D game because you apparently don't have anything from east of Europe

Tiamat: Babyloanian deity/monster. That's ain't medieval Europe. So I guess you don't have one of D&D's iconic villains. Hrm. And you're saying yours is typical? Odd table you're paying on
Bahamut: Arabic equivilent of the Leviathan. This draws from Arabic sources so, that ain't medieval Europle either. Real odd D&D you got going there, mate.

Should I continue? Shall we get into the Genies next? Just, clear cut the elemental planes from your oh so typical game of D&D? That's before I even get into Planescape proper
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
No actually YOU SAYING the Monk fits wherever you want Kung-Fu Joe to go is okay is the definition of One-True Wayism. It's saying 'No. You can't say No to Monks.' Which is $%&^@(. Of course I can say no to Monks. Unless I'm at your table where I might get forced to play a Monk if I want to play a Fighter who gets down unarmed. Get your BS labels right.
I have things to do. Dealing with your whatever this is is taking up my time. Drop the alt, please. It’s not impressing anybody.
 

In addition to losing their ribbons, monks are also in danger of losing their flavor.

I realize why the "Eastern mysticism" of the monk can be problematic, but replacing "ki points" with "discipline points" feels like a serious bland-ification. Maybe they could call it fury points? Energy? There's got to be some word or phrase that is less stereotypical but isn't painfully genetic. Likewise, changing "Diamond Soul" to "Disciplined Survivor" just feels sad. Surely we can make the monk less insensitive without turning him into Non-Specific Punching Person.
 

No actually YOU SAYING the Monk fits wherever you want Kung-Fu Joe to go is okay is the definition of One-True Wayism. It's saying 'No. You can't say No to Monks.' Which is $%&^@(. Of course I can say no to Monks. Unless I'm at your table where I might get forced to play a Monk if I want to play a Fighter who gets down unarmed. Get your BS labels right.
No that is not what it means. I think you have bias goggles on or something. That and you bring a lot of unnecessary vitriol to what should be a simple conversation.

PS I’m fine with no monks, or all monks, though I leave that up to our DM.
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
In addition to losing their ribbons, monks are also in danger of losing their flavor.

I realize why the "Eastern mysticism" of the monk can be problematic, but replacing "ki points" with "discipline points" feels like a serious bland-ification. Maybe they could call it fury points? Energy? There's got to be some word or phrase that is less stereotypical but isn't painfully genetic. Likewise, changing "Diamond Soul" to "Disciplined Survivor" just feels sad. Surely we can make the monk less insensitive without turning him into Non-Specific Punching Person.
I think "losing their flavor" might be a bit of an overstatement, but I see where you're coming from.

Monks had a very distinctive flavor when they were first written for D&D, based on popular culture. And that's the thing: pop culture did what it always does, and changed over time. It branched off of that classic mysticism into different directions, following the examples of video games, movies, and especially anime. Now we don't just have the classic mysticism of 1970s kung-fu movies, we also have Street Fighter II. We have Avatar: the Last Airbender. We have Seven Samurai. Final Fantasy. Usagi Yojimbo. Kill Bill. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Fullmetal Alchemist. I could go on, and on, and on.

But that classic mysticism flavor and style that you mentioned is still there, it never went anywhere. It's just no longer the only choice available. Pop culture moved on, and the D&D Monk moved with it.
 


Clint_L

Hero
As usual, Snarf's OP is fantastic - I love both the time capsule visit and the overall assessment of the underlying issues, which I think have always come down to D&D not knowing quite what to do with the class.

That said, a number of us have been tossing around ideas over on the OneD&D forum, and here is my consolidation of them into a few very minor tweaks to the current UA that I think would hugely benefit how the class plays. Alterations in italics:

2ND LEVEL: MARTIAL DISCIPLINE
Your self-discipline and martial training allow you to harness a well of extraordinary energy within yourself. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of Discipline Points. Your Monk level plus your wisdom ability score modifier determine the number of points you have, as shown in the Discipline Points column of the Monk table.

You can spend these points to fuel various Martial Discipline features. You start knowing three such features: Flurry of Blows, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind. You learn more Martial Discipline features as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a Discipline Point, it is unavailable until you finish a Short Rest or Long Rest, at the end of which you regain all your expended points.

Some of your Martial Discipline features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature’s effects. The saving throw DC equals 8 plus your Proficiency Bonus plus your Wisdom modifier.

Flurry of Blows. Immediately after you take the Attack action on your turn, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to make one additional Unarmed Strike. You may still take an additional unarmed strike as your bonus action.

Patient Defense. When targeted by an Attack, you can spend 1 Discipline Point to take the Dodge action as a reaction.

Step of the Wind. You can spend 1 Discipline Point to take both the Disengage and Dash actions as a Bonus Action, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Rabban Bar Sauma was an Uighar born somewhere near Beijing in c.1220, during the Yuan (Mongol) dynasty. He was an Eastern Rite (Nestorian) Christian and became a Monk in his 20s. Some time in the 1260s he and his student Rabban Marcos went on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, but became domiciled in Baghdad where Rabban Markos was elected Patriarch of the Church of the East. Rabban bar Sauma was sent to Europe to meet the Pope and various European Kings in order to make an alliance agaimst the Mamluk Sultanate.

okay there is no statement that Rabban Bar Saumi actually knew martial arts or could channel Ki, but it does place at least two East Asian Monks amongst European knights, Clerics and no doubt some Rogues :p

here is the book translating Rabban Sauma’s own writing Full text of "The Monks of Kubilai Khan, Emperor of China"
 
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