Monster Healing Surges

[Danceofmasks]

First of all, you are not my player, which is why campaign isn't based on your desires or likes. I have been a DM for my players (yes the same group) for 20 years almost. They also happen to be my best friends, so I know pretty well what I can do and not do, without pissing people of. Also, who ever talked about daily powers? Grazz't's domination allow him to use encounter attack powers. I just tweaked it a bit to include any encounter powers, hence the healing word. Also, if I was your DM and made you use daily powers, I can guarantee I wouldn't make you use them against the floor. They would most likely be much more efficiently used against your own party

What works for you works for you, that's fine.
What works for me, for instance, is monsters that coup-de-grace as a priority 'cos they are not idiots and don't fight to lose.

Some of us are just confused 'cos you represented something that happened as a houserule in your game as something that happens in D&D in general.
Coup de graces are legal by RAW (though some could argue the DM is being a jerk). Demon lords forcing a PC to healing word is not.

Some encounter attack powers trigger surges, though ... such as healing strike (cleric 1)

 

[Wrathamon]

And another use for minions! Excellent!

Monsters get 1 surge per tier normally, and while they don't get 2nd winds, they can be healed by things that make them spend surges.

I use em ... Healing Potions!

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Actually the text you quoted shows they can. The monster just does not have access to take a second wind as an action.

In-context, the text then basically gives second wind as a power. I mean, yes, you could theoretically try and argue what they meant by action, but IMO that's a huge stretch.

 

[ValhallaGH]

In-context, the text then basically gives second wind as a power. I mean, yes, you could theoretically try and argue what they meant by action, but IMO that's a huge stretch.

No stretching required! The only stretch I have to make is justifying how my monsters, who don't have the Second Wind ability, can activate their Second Wind via a skill check.

But that's okay. I'm used to listening to people justify their Eminent Domain ability when they clearly didn't havy any Domain until they Eminated it.

 

[the Jester]

Actually the text you quoted shows they can. The monster just does not have access to take a second wind as an action.

I don't see where you're getting this.

If you are correct, what is the difference between a second wind and a healing surge? Given that, when triggered by another creature, second wind doesn't do anything but spend a healing surge.

I disagree with this interpretation.

Also, an important factor in deciding whether a monster should be able to spend a healing surge is how many hit points monsters have, especially solos and elites.

Should a dragon be able to regain hundreds of hit points thanks to a minion's actions? I don't think so.

Notice how few monsters get second wind, or the ability to trigger a surge at all- there is a good reason for this, imho.

 

[DracoSuave]

Afaik, several of them rate it as one of the hardest, coolest and most memorable fight they have had in 20 years of gaming.

Then any other criticism is irrelevant.

You eyeballed your group, made a ruling that made their lives hell, which they determined was awesomefun, and therefore you made the right decision.

Corrolary to Rule 0 of DMing

If you make a ruling against the players that ends up with them having a blast and a great time, then you made the correct ruling no matter what rules lawyers on the internets claim.

--------

A DM's job is to run a game that is fun for everyone, not obey the rules.

 

[DracoSuave]

I did the same as Jack99 once. I too think that dominate should actually, I don't know, DOMINATE, and allow the monsters to use PC encounter powers. Some of the players actually did get a bit ticked off since the BBEG got away because of the healing.

That's a different story tho, between Grazzt, the demonlord, and the BBEG of an entire campaign, and Kobold Mindbender, mook, and sword-fodder.

Yes, level >31 Solo Unique Monsters should go above and beyond and have crazy wacked out abilities that are superpowerful.

It should never be the general rule, however. Dominated is bad enough as it is... there's a reason why you're dazed by it as well.


And there's reasons Grazz't goes above and beyond, making you an ally of his, making you non-dazed for flanking purposes, giving a -4 save penalty, and permanently* debuffing your Will by 4.


*permanently in this case meaning until the end of the encounter as opposed to at the end of a turn.

 

[KarinsDad]

That's a different story tho, between Grazzt, the demonlord, and the BBEG of an entire campaign, and Kobold Mindbender, mook, and sword-fodder.

Yes, level >31 Solo Unique Monsters should go above and beyond and have crazy wacked out abilities that are superpowerful.

It should never be the general rule, however. Dominated is bad enough as it is... there's a reason why you're dazed by it as well.


And there's reasons Grazz't goes above and beyond, making you an ally of his, making you non-dazed for flanking purposes, giving a -4 save penalty, and permanently* debuffing your Will by 4.


*permanently in this case meaning until the end of the encounter as opposed to at the end of a turn.

I throw the BS flag.

It doesn't matter what level PCs are. A single PC losing even all of his encounter powers is not typically going to break the bank in an encounter since Dominate is typically limited to one PC at a time (hence, the other PCs can still use their encounter powers).

If it is ok for Grazzt to do this, it is ok for any dominate capable creature to do so as long as the players are having fun.


Single target Dominate is somewhat lame with it being limited to At Will powers. A good solid area effect power will do a lot more damage in the long run to the PCs than Dominate does, even considering the action economy of one PC not attacking the creature.

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

No stretching required! The only stretch I have to make is justifying how my monsters, who don't have the Second Wind ability, can activate their Second Wind via a skill check.

But that's okay. I'm used to listening to people justify their Eminent Domain ability when they clearly didn't havy any Domain until they Eminated it.

...what?

Strictly speaking, you can more or less think of Second Wind as a power. You can't use it if you don't have it. It's not a property. Just like how running isn't a property of a movement, it's a specific action (hence, you can't "run-charge" as an example).

 

[Starfox]

Just for clarification, in-combat healing isn't a monster thing. But if a monster escapes from an encounter and takes a short rest, they can spend whatever healing surges they have at the end of that rest, just as PCs can.

I count the healing surges of monsters as an encounter resource; that is, monsters have 1, 2, or 3 surges per encounter, depending in tier. This is mainly relevant for friendly NPCS, but can apply to hit-and-run tactics as well.