Monster Vault impressions

[Metalmaster]

All by all i'm cool with the Monster Vault, I love the tokens (eventho I love those made by myself more, as I would never use boring monsters like Bloodseekerdrake or guard drake) and I love the full length story of the monsters in the book!
These I made myself, I have 200 different monsters as of now, mostly because I only want perfect pictures for them, some (like cave fisher) are impossible at this moment too bad...
http://94.100.121.65/1161150001-1161200000/1161189001-1161189100/1161189010_6_BOxL.jpeg
http://94.100.123.172/1161150001-1161200000/1161189101-1161189200/1161189154_6_0Hf3.jpeg
http://94.100.124.18/1161150001-1161200000/1161189201-1161189300/1161189292_6_NDMD.jpeg
http://94.100.121.207/1161150001-1161200000/1161189401-1161189500/1161189414_6_oSoB.jpeg
http://94.100.124.175/1161150001-1161200000/1161189501-1161189600/1161189568_6_FnrH.jpeg
http://94.100.121.207/1161150001-1161200000/1161189701-1161189800/1161189701_6_TInw.jpeg
http://94.100.118.104/1161150001-1161200000/1161189801-1161189900/1161189845_6_PwKl.jpeg
http://94.100.115.198/1161150001-1161200000/1161189901-1161190000/1161189992_6_BIWX.jpeg
http://94.100.122.170/1161150001-1161200000/1161190101-1161190200/1161190114_6_DPdw.jpeg
http://94.100.123.72/1161150001-1161200000/1161190201-1161190300/1161190235_6_NEx6.jpeg

But why are the new angels, archons, many strange drake species in the book? They shouldn't be there, this is a book for nostalgic monsters right? All classic monsters, MANY classics are missing... Salamanders, Ettercap and even Aboleth...

My perfect monster vault would look like this: All popular monsters from D&D.

Aboleth - Tarrasque - Ankheg - Barghest - Basilisk - Behir - Beholder - Bulette - Bullywug - Carrion Crawler - Catoblepas - Cave Fisher - Centaur - Chimera - Cloaker - Cockatrice - Couatl - Cyclops - Death Knight - Babau - Balor - Glabrezu - Marilith - Nalfeshnee - Vrock - Yochlol - Derro - Barbazu (much like legion devil) - Gelugon - Hamatula (instead of spinagon) - Imp - Malebranche - Osyluth - Pit Fiend - Succubus - Displacer Beast (one with berbalang powers) - Djinn - Doppelganger - Red Dragon - Faerie Dragon - Drider - Drow - Dryad - Duergar - Efreet - Air Elemental - Earth Elemental - FIre Elemental - Water Elemental - Ettercap (vermin lord) - Ettin - Firbolg (covers werebear) - Fomorian - Gargoyle - Banshee - Ghoul - Fire Giant - Frost Giant - Storm Giant - Gibbering Mouther - Githyanki - Gnoll - Bugbear - Goblin - Flesh Golem - Gorgon - Grell - Griffon - Hag (night or annis) - Harpy - Hook Horror - Hellhound - Hydra - Intellect Devourer - Jackalwere - Kenku - Kobold - Kraken - Kuo Toa - Lamia - Lich - Lizardman - Wererat - Werewolf - Manticore - Meazel - Medusa - Mimic - Mind Flayer - Minotaur - Mummy (I kinda like the skirr version, not the humanoid) - Myconid - Naga (dark) - Nightmare - Oblivion Moss - Ogre - Oni - Black Pudding - Gelatinous Cube - Green Slime - Orc - Otyugh - Owlbear - Purple Worm - Quickling - Rakshasa - Remorhaz - Phoenix/Roc - Roper - Rot Grub Swarm - Rust Monster - Sahuagin - Salamander - Satyr - Scarecrow - Shadow - Shambling Mound - Skeleton - Slaad (much like hezrou) - Spectre - Sphinx - Phase Spider - Spriggan - Stirge - Su Monster - Thri Kreen - Treant - Troglodyte (much like grimlock) - Troll - Umber Hulk - Unicorn - Vampire - Wight (with power of boneclaw) - Will o Wisp - Winter Wolf - Worg - Wraith - Wyvern - Xorn - Yeti - Yuan Ti - Zombie

Other monsters NOT from the first edition that still are very popular are:
Neogi - Nightwalker - Gray Render (much like rampager) - Destrachan - Kyton - Dracolich (frost version) - Astral Stalker (invisible stalker) - Bladeling - Choker (acts like skulk) - Chuul - Clockwork Horror - Bebilith - Krenshar (maybe some hybrid with a howler, because the two creatures are very alike) - Gremlin - Death Giant (much like devourer with the souls) - Rot Harbinger - Swordwing - Greenvise - Steel Predator (magnetic version) - Sorrowsworn - Shield Guardian (my iron golem) - Eidolon (my stone golem) - Boneyard (my bone golem) - Chaos Shard - Evistro - Flameskull - Drakkoth - Helmed Horror - Nerra - Nothic - Spell Weaver

And for the beasts:
Shadowhunter Bat - Fire Beetle (acts like bombardier beetle) - Dire Boar - Dire Rat (acts like cranium rat) - Dire Tiger - Scytheclaw Drake (acts like bonesnapper) - Feymire Crocodile - Hellstinger Scorpion - Crushgrip Constrictor

And last but not least some popular monsters that didn't appear in 4th edition yet, but who are very popular aswel.
Zorbo
Aurumvorax
Deepspawn
Crimson Death
Peryton
Morkoth

The more good humanoid races won't appear in a monster book, such as elves, eladrin, dwarves and halflings.

Also I hate hobgoblins (too much like orcs and bugbears) and Hill Giants (too much like ogres en ettins), so I left them out on purpose, I don't like 5 dragons aswel, so I only used the red version, Dracolich could use frostbreath of white, Wyvern acts like Green Dragon and Behir much like Blue Dragon, that only leaves the Black Dragon out, maybe putting the more cooler shadow dragon in instead.
Other famous creatures i'm not a big fan off:
Tiefing and Cambion (maybe as characters, but not as monsters.)
Hezrou (too much like slaadi)
Azer (too much like a small fire giant and Duergar are enough for monstrous dwarves)
Bodak (nightwalkers create shadows instead)
Dark Creeper (too much like chokers and kenku in behavior)
Goristro (better make a demonic version of the minotaur)
Dragonborn (nice for character, but not for monster really, I prefer only Drakkoth for monster)
Drakes (most of them suck, only Faerie Dragon and Scytheclaw are somewhat cool, change the bloodseeker model into a dimetrodon and maybe he's cool to)
Stone Golem and Iron Golem (I prefer to use Shield Guardian and Eidolon instead, much cooler and otherwise too much alike)
Galeb Duhr (I give its powers to the Gargoyle and Eidolon)
Stone Giant (never cared for them)
Githzerai (one gith is enough, this one is nice for characters, but not for monster)
Grick (bleh, ugly thing)
Hippogriff (Griffon is enough, really)
Grimlock (Most boring thing ever, too much in acting like Troglodyte)
Homunculus (nice for another kind of manual, not monster manual)
Shadow Mastiff (Shadows should be able to take any form they desire, also from a dog, so unneccairy)
Marut (cool for some, but not really for this manual)
Ochre Jelly (too much acts like Green Slime, three slimes are enough)
Shadar-Kai (I think they are much like vampires should act.)
Shifter (Everybody could have a baby, this doesn't make sense, maybe for character)


P.S yes i'm kinda bored so that's why its kinda long, sorry to bother you with this, I just like typing when i'm bored!

 

[OchreJelly]

I got mine last night , propped up MM1 next to the new Monster Vault book, and started reading. Here are my impressions:

1) The sort-of bad. I'll get the negative out of the way first. I got the impressions from the previews / podcasts that it was mostly going to be new takes on existing monsters rather than straight updates from MM1. For example, the "kobold tunneler" I believe is a new type of kobold. In my, albeit cursory, comparisons I found that there are actually way more straight MM1 ports that were updated than I expected based on this belief. Examples: All the demons and devils, displacer beasts, etc. (ok you can see I mostly made it to the D's).

2) As to those updated monsters... With that out of the way, I'm glad they were updated. I just wish there was a bit more transparency on the designers' part. They won't really ever out-right say that most of MM1 was underpowered, but whatever I drank the coolaid so here I am.

The updates in general are very nice. Brutes in particular got a very nice overhaul that puts them in line with the new math. Unfortunately I don't have the books in front of me now, but as I was doing a side-by-side comparison I recall that the Hezrou's average damage is flat-out doubled.

Besides damage, they cut out a lot of the more fiddly abilities and/or rolled those abilities into the monster's average attacks. Like the balor (I think) had an ability to reroll a missed attack as a free action. Gone. Now they have a more evocotive beheading attack that just screams damage-dealing hoss. Other fiddly bits I noticed removed: No more secondary roll on poison attacks. I observed this on at least one monster. If it's an attack like a poison sting, it's straight vs. fort + poison damage attack all handled in one attack roll. Nice.

Interestingly enough, the pit fiend lost his encounter summon ability, in exchange for a tactical leader-like ability. I guess the designers felt that a GM could handle reinforcements outside of the creature mechanic. Decent change overall.

The basic lich is more "lichy". I always thought it was incredibly un-lichlike to have "second wind" as the original base MM1 lich had. That is gone. Now the base one has a vampiric touch, a chill grasp, and enervating tentacles. There are other varieties I didn't look at closely yet.

3) Solos. Many of the solos flat-out end dominate/daze/stun effects. This appeared to be true of all dragons where they just end those effects at the end of their round whether the power would require a save or not. As a dm I love this, and I think even my players were starting to get bored with some of the bad lock-down fests some of our earlier sessions had. You can still lock down dragons but it's limited to one round only. So coordinated players will still be able to stack them round-to-round but it's a lot less of a sure thing now, especially since the stun always ends on the dragon's turn.

4) The tokens. Honestly this was the main reason I bought this kit, because I'm not a minis collector. The quality is great and every creature has a bloodied side. The "embiggenator" is a nice innovation (it's a ring that turns a large token into a huge token).

To sum up, I'm very happy with this. I haven't even cracked the adventure or the map, but for me this was a lot of bang for my buck. YMMY depending on how much you care about updated monster stats, and tokens.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

3) Solos. Many of the solos flat-out end dominate/daze/stun effects. This appeared to be true of all dragons where they just end those effects at the end of their round whether the power would require a save or not. As a dm I love this, and I think even my players were starting to get bored with some of the bad lock-down fests some of our earlier sessions had. You can still lock down dragons but it's limited to one round only. So coordinated players will still be able to stack them round-to-round but it's a lot less of a sure thing now, especially since the stun always ends on the dragon's turn.

Plus, lots of the solos still get free actions when stunned...and then get the triggered powers that are free actions that are nasty.

Looking at you, hydra (which can theoretically get 14 attacks a turn vs. a 5 player party).

 

[keterys]

Skimming through this morning for the first time, I was very happy with some of the changes - like the Balor's previously mentioned Beheading power.

On the other hand, there are still a few stinkers. Like the at-will stunned (save ends) on the Carrion Crawler Scuttler.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

What does the Balor's Beheading thingie do?

 

[OchreJelly]

I don't have it in front of me, but I think it's something like a close blast 3 version of their blade basic attack that crits on a 15-20. So it's something like base 70 damage + 3d10 when it crits. I'm probably fuzzy with the numbers but that's the basic idea.

 

[OchreJelly]

Plus, lots of the solos still get free actions when stunned...and then get the triggered powers that are free actions that are nasty.

Looking at you, hydra (which can theoretically get 14 attacks a turn vs. a 5 player party).

yeah you can tell there was some overcompensation where the hydra is concerned. He's a very interesting monster now.

Although I'm a little unclear on something: I understand the intent of giving solos like this free actions to get around stuns, but don't stuns themselves still deny all actions? Isn't a free action still an action or has something been erata'ed?

 

[Korgoth]

It needs more Cthulhu. Aboleths and Gibbering thingies.

 

[Korgoth]

Oh, and Grells. Needs more Grells.

 

[keterys]

I don't have it in front of me, but I think it's something like a close blast 3 version of their blade basic attack that crits on a 15-20. So it's something like base 70 damage + 3d10 when it crits. I'm probably fuzzy with the numbers but that's the basic idea.

Yeah, I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it's
Encounter*; Crit on a 15-20; Close blast 3; +32 vs. AC; 5d12 + 14 lightning, crit 3d12 + 74 lightning.
* Or maybe recharge bloodied.

Good for putting some 'Whoa!' out there.