Mordenkainen's Magical Emporium & magic items

[The Little Raven]

Looks like we might get it?

Minor artifacts were introduced in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide back in 2008, but I don't recall anything else done with them afterwards.

They are given levels, but are obviously more powerful than items of the same level, but not quite on par with artifacts.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I was in the room when this was discussed. What was said was that common items were the type if thing you could buy or craft. Uncommon items generally could not be bought and could not be crafted. Rare items could never be bought or crafted. They suggested there were rules in the rules compendium stating that each PC should not be given more than one rare item. Also, they said that there would be rules on how much extra it would cost to buy uncommon or rare items on the off chance that you could find the right person to buy them from.

Most of the currently existing items will be classified uncommon and therefore no longer craftable or purchasable. It was suggested that this was a way for DMs to have more control over their games and make magic items more of a reward than an entitlement.

Rare items will be much more powerful than uncommon items.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Most of the currently existing items will be classified uncommon and therefore no longer craftable or purchasable. It was suggested that this was a way for DMs to have more control over their games and make magic items more of a reward than an entitlement.

See, I just don't really understand this idea. DMs already have control of their games. As I said above, the DMs I have played with allow virtually no item creation by players, severely restrict the availability of most magic items, and limit gold distribution to levels below the DMG guidelines, to the point that magic items in the game are almost entirely those awarded as part of treasure parcels. Because they are otherwise good DMs, we don't object too much.

Now, if it was phrased as "[...] this was a way for DMs to justify their decisions about availability and craft-ability so that the players wouldn't bitch too much" -- that would make sense.

 

[Nymrohd]

Classifying items defines player expectations of obtaining them. With the current system players feel entitled to every item available and if it is not provided they are free to create it through ritual. A DM can restrict access but he is forced to do so openly; he will have to deny an item a player might want and this affects gameplay. If the items are classified to begin with a player might wish for a rare but he will know it is entirely depending on the DM to provide it; therefore the DM rewards items instead of taking them away. It is subtle but in my opinion helps shape a more positive group dynamic in item acquisition.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Classifying items defines player expectations of obtaining them. With the current system players feel entitled to every item available and if it is not provided they are free to create it through ritual. A DM can restrict access but he is forced to do so openly; he will have to deny an item a player might want and this affects gameplay. If the items are classified to begin with a player might wish for a rare but he will know it is entirely depending on the DM to provide it; therefore the DM rewards items instead of taking them away. It is subtle but in my opinion helps shape a more positive group dynamic in item acquisition.

On the other hand it appears to me if most items are uncommon then basically all that is happening is the Enchant Item ritual is being made practically useless and they're essentially adding a DM advice "don't have magic shops". It is a tiny bit more subtle than that, but not much. One of the nice things about 4e has been the fact that players CAN make items. If you are fairly close to the treasure parcel system recommended treasure distribution PCs won't get too many chances to make items anyhow simply because of the cost. At best any one PC can make an equal level item (not one of their more powerful items) once per level. If you allow Enchant Item to upgrade items then it is a bit more useful but still not the main way items are made available. So really I don't see how this new rarity system is really doing anything except taking away some of the fun for the players.

It also, as of what we know now, doesn't address the issue that epic characters really aught to be able to do anything that mortals can possibly accomplish. I can see the idea that "some items are really hard to make", but I'm not really convinced we needed guidelines for that.

As for player entitlement issues what is going to change? The players will still want to have those Iron Armbands of Power and still put them on their wishlist and they can still feel free to believe they are entitled to getting what they want. I mean entitlement is not some kind of new phenomenon, players have been demanding specific types of items since the earliest days of D&D. It was just that pre-3.x at least there was no specific NEED for particular items in order to make your character work. An AD&D fighter probably did need a magic sword, but whether it was flaming, sharp, holy, etc was pretty much just "hey, that's cool". 4e isn't going to be able to go back to that, thus the need to request specific items doesn't go away.

It will be interesting to see how this actually works when the book comes out, but it really isn't making any decent amount of sense to me right now.

 

[Scribble]

I think giving it a category also kind of makes it more "special" even if it's an artificial thing.

A DM can make various items out there uncommon or rare in his game sure, but labeling it that already makes the players feel like whatever that item is is more special from the start.

It's kind of like the minis. They're all just hunks of plastic with a couple layers of paint... But call one "rare" and make a few less of them... Suddenly the price jumps up.

It's kind of a really simple way to add a little "specialness" back into magic items without changing the rules a whole lot. (Or probably even at all, since I'm willing to bet you can ignore the labels entirely without any effect on the math.)

Whoever thought to do that deserves a beer.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I wonder are they moving away from the requirement for magic items. If most items are becomming uncommon then the default should be that the characters are created with inherent bonuses and magic items become things to flavor up the campaign and rare things for characters to have.

 

[Scribble]

I wonder are they moving away from the requirement for magic items. If most items are becomming uncommon then the default should be that the characters are created with inherent bonuses and magic items become things to flavor up the campaign and rare things for characters to have.

My guess is (as I think others have guessed as well) items that give straight bonuses to hit/damage or AC will be common, so the math doesn't change.

Items that do other cool stuff like flame or something will be uncommon... Items that just are really cool like figurines of wonderous power et all will be rare.

Artifacts will fill the same role as the Orcus mini.

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

Minor artifacts were introduced in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide back in 2008, but I don't recall anything else done with them afterwards.

They are given levels, but are obviously more powerful than items of the same level, but not quite on par with artifacts.

That's one of the few books I didn't buy, although I assume those would be in the Compendium?

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

Classifying items defines player expectations of obtaining them. With the current system players feel entitled to every item available and if it is not provided they are free to create it through ritual. A DM can restrict access but he is forced to do so openly; he will have to deny an item a player might want and this affects gameplay. If the items are classified to begin with a player might wish for a rare but he will know it is entirely depending on the DM to provide it; therefore the DM rewards items instead of taking them away. It is subtle but in my opinion helps shape a more positive group dynamic in item acquisition.

Especially considering the philosophy of "Just say Yes."

Personally I'm loving this idea. I'm guessing that the few 'common' items will be things like +4 magic swords, without the extra powers.

Not to mention that this might have some effect on length of play...if the DM doesn't want as many 'Daily power' items or such, it's less stuff for the players to dig through trying to decide what to do.

Especially if you have players like me who try to fill every single slot with an item (although they do say that they try to emphasize items with properties instead of powers).