Moving to C&C... need help

[kaomera]

Except success is more likely (and more predictable) since the opponent has no hope of getting a +20 bonus to its score, which may defeat a PC with a much higher base bonus.

If you are rolling on a Prime attribute then the opponent gets a +12; if you are rolling non-Prime it jumps up to +18. That's the Challenge Base. Everything else being equal (and it never really is, is it?) you would have a 45% or 15% chance of success. But the 12/18 base assumes that an average PC will have a +1 advantage for ability score (since monsters / most NPCs don't have ability scores even a 13 would qualify, but the average score is 10.5...) and a +1 for level (I don't know exactly where that one comes from, since an equal-level challenge would be +X-X for a net "0"...), for a 55% / 25%. (Overall this is rather similar to the "Players Roll All The Dice option from the 3.5 UA here)

Overall I'd say that the CK wants (/needs) to be calling for a lot fewer checks than a 3.5 DM. That or applying a lot of negative CL, for a more reasonable final CC... My understanding is that anything reasonable should just e allowed, only roll when the player wants their character to try something "interesting"...

 

[Grimstaff]

Its amazing how much faster combat moves in C&C simply due to the absence of Attacks of Opportunity (and its endless chain of feats and skill checks to avoid or enhance such attacks).

I was so impressed I removed AoO's from my very next 3.5 game, and my combats run beautifully now, even into higher levels.

 

[SavageRobby]

Overall I'd say that the CK wants (/needs) to be calling for a lot fewer checks than a 3.5 DM. That or applying a lot of negative CL, for a more reasonable final CC... My understanding is that anything reasonable should just e allowed, only roll when the player wants their character to try something "interesting"...

That is what the section on ability scores says, and played that way it definitely speeds things up and adds a level of competence to 1st level characters that seems often lacking in d20 games. Only on actions where there is a real question about success should the characters make a roll.

 

[Hairfoot]

If you are rolling on a Prime attribute then the opponent gets a +12; if you are rolling non-Prime it jumps up to +18.

Ah, true. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

So has the anti-evangelism. Its like the Troll Lords killed y'alls dogs or something.

No. Honest criticism of a game mechanic is not an emotional reaction. It is not an attack on C&C or Troll Lords.

Also, correcting misinformation presented about a game book is not "anti" anything other than anti-misinformation.

Indeed, when one refers to "evangilism" of C&C what you're really saying is there are those of us who like C&C a lot and want to share our experiences.

When I say evangelism I mean evangelism. There is no hidden subtext.

And yes, there is another thread for those who have tried C&C and have not stuck with it, and it also features posts of a conflicting nature.




When misinformation is given about the RAW of a game, it does a great disservice to potential consumer. That is my only concern.

The house rules, imagination and great creativity one person uses to make a certain game system great may not be the same kind of resources available to a different GM or gaming group. There are so many different kinds of game masters. This is why we should honestly represent the core rules of any game.

From that honest review, you can then extrapolate with your personal changes or fixes (depending on your point of view) to the game that make it more enjoyable for you. A potential consumer can then make her decision based on the core and the options of imagination.

For example, a consumer may feel that many evangelists of C&C use so many house rules that the purchase of the core book is completely unnecessary when they could spend the same amount of time house ruling a system they already own.

Another consumer may want the seeds of inspiration from a book, or they may be disinterested in popular house rules, favoring the RAW instead.

 

[Rhone1]

I learned about C&C at Gen Con after deciding that I would probably not go down the 4ed path of D&D and have been really excited about what I've seen from the game. Very rules light, a 1st edition feel, decent sized community and a passionate fan base....oh yeah, and Gary Gygax.

 

[Zulgyan]

I think that C&C works great without feats or feat like actions. Since I started playing C&C I just got rid of feats. But C&C is all about "play the game you want". If you like PCs to perform feat-like actions, go ahead. Don't hinder your fun because "that's not in the book".

Every DM plays a same yet different game. That's very cool too when switching from DM to player.

 

[Dragon-Slayer]

If C&C doesn't work there is also Iron Gauntlets, which is really easy to pick up and play. Instead of classes there are vocations and the combat and magic systems are very easy to learn and play. While I like C&C, Iron Gauntlets is another great alternative.