D&D 5E Multiclassing order

[CrashFiend82]

The monk can not attack using Martial Arts with the rapier as it is not a monk weapon, also they could not make two attacks until 5th level (with extra attack) and shadow step, as both are bonus actions and you only ever get one bonus action per round. After 5th they could use shadow step (bonus action) and attack with any weapon they are proficient with twice, they would only get sneak attack on the first hit.

 

[kerbarian]

The monk can not attack using Martial Arts with the rapier as it is not a monk weapon, also they could not make two attacks until 5th level (with extra attack) and shadow step, as both are bonus actions and you only ever get one bonus action per round. After 5th they could use shadow step (bonus action) and attack with any weapon they are proficient with twice, they would only get sneak attack on the first hit.

All of the examples were for a level 5+ monk with Extra Attack, and the only bonus action attack was for martial arts -- which is always an unarmed strike -- in the second example without shadow step. The advantage of the rapier is that once or twice per round (depending on the situation), you get to use a d8 for damage instead of a d6.

 

[CrashFiend82]

So your basic question is can a monk attack with a rapier, yes. This was a bit confusing because of the comment about having the shortsword in the other hand, which makes no sense, why would you not make all attacks with the rapier. As for Martial Arts, a monk can use monk weapons including the shortsword to make an extra attack as a bonus action it does not not need always be an unarmed strike.

 

[CrashFiend82]

Missed the last part of the question about extra attack having both the shortsword and rapier, sorry. By Raw I think you would be correct 1st attack with rapier 2nd and 3rd (bonus action) with Shortsword.

 

[kerbarian]

So your basic question is can a monk attack with a rapier, yes. This was a bit confusing because of the comment about having the shortsword in the other hand, which makes no sense, why would you not make all attacks with the rapier. As for Martial Arts, a monk can use monk weapons including the shortsword to make an extra attack as a bonus action it does not not need always be an unarmed strike.

The reason to have the short sword in the other hand is because of how Martial Arts is worded: "When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action." If you make both of your attacks with a rapier, then you haven't satisfied the condition. If you make one of the attacks with the rapier and one with a short sword, though, you're good.

Even if you have a DM who rules that the entire Attack action must be with monk weapons, you'd still benefit from wielding one of each. When you don't have a bonus action available for Martial Arts, attack with the rapier. When you do want to trigger Martial Arts, attack with the short sword.

 

[CrashFiend82]

Yes but a DM could also rule per RAW "When you use the attack action with unarmed strike or monk weapon" so not an "attack" but the action itself which would preclude using both weapons during the action, so actually after further reading by RAW no. However I could see a DM overrule that easily and just count it with the attack. If the character gives a compelling reason beyond it adds a likely +1 to damage, however since the shortsword is in a second hand I would argue they loose any bonus from to damage on hit which could make it more a negative, so it would remain DM call.

 

[nswanson27]

delete post

 

[nswanson27]

Yes but a DM could also rule per RAW "When you use the attack action with unarmed strike or monk weapon" so not an "attack" but the action itself which would preclude using both weapons during the action, so actually after further reading by RAW no. However I could see a DM overrule that easily and just count it with the attack. If the character gives a compelling reason beyond it adds a likely +1 to damage, however since the shortsword is in a second hand I would argue they loose any bonus from to damage on hit which could make it more a negative, so it would remain DM call.

But I am using a monk weapon with an attack action - it's just not the only kind of weapon I'm using. Whether it's "attack" or "attack action", it still works. You seem to be reading it as if it were saying "...only with an unarmed strike or monk weapons". I'm not buying your interpretation as RAW. And your last sentence seems to be trying to use two-weapon fighting rules, which that doesn't apply here.

 

[Logan1138]

deleted.

 

[Logan1138]

I just reviewed the rules for monks and noticed the following on page 78 of the PHB which renders this entire discussion (in regards to rapiers, short swords and unarmed strikes) moot: "You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding ONLY monk weapons (the rapier is NOT a monk weapon) and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield:". What follows are the bullet points about being able to use DEX instead of STR with unarmed strikes and monk weapons as well as the ability to use a bonus action to make an unarmed strike.