My Paladin killed a child molester (and now my DM wants to take away my powers!)

[diaglo]

i just want to point out.... there is no facing in this edition.

and a paladin in armor carrying a sword out makes a lot of noise. esp when he barges into an occupied room.

the DM should've made these things obvious too.

if the paladin can hear the commoners speech about his exploits... the reverse is true

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I think your DM ought to be stripped of his powers for trying to entrap you, especially in such an uncreative and blatant way.

If you ask me, the DM ambushed you.

Lots of DMs view the paladin as a outlet for their own B.S. morality plays:

"How could you slaughter those goblin women and children? You should have tried to redeem them!"

Paladins aren't meant to be played in shades of grey. They live in a black and white world.

If it's more important to you to play a paladin than to play with this DM, I think you need to find a game with fewer shades of grey. Otherwise, trying to play a paladin is just asking to be constantly jerked around.

Then again, I also think most paladin players are munchkins, and occasionally they need to be taught a lesson-- admittedly, only in my own experience, only my opinion.

My instinct tells me that either your DM doesn't like you, or he doesn't like paladins. He set that clumsy trap for you for a reason. Either he doesn't want you to be a paladin, or he wants to frustrate you to the point that you leave.

Just my gut feeling on this one.


Wulf

 

[Ogrebear]

Reading the thread my thoughts where that he did the right thing, since as a Paladin he is a Knight and a representative therefore of the Law he has the right to dispense Justice, which this man was deserving.

However, the player really should of made the man turn around and declared exactly what his crime was in a loud clear voice, then dragged him back in front witness and executed him as a warning to others.

Killing him with his back turned was definatly wrong imho. Killing him in front of the child was also wrong.

Dont think I'd ever use something like this in a game either. Interesting roleplaying dilemma though.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Just tried to point out that the paladin shouldn't let extreme probabilities interfere with his everyday duty.

I know... The "What if's..." arguments are silly.

Paladins cannot be paralyzed into inaction by all the possible what ifs that a world full of magic entails.

That would spell the victory of evil.

 

[jgbrowning]

I think your DM ought to be stripped of his powers for trying to entrap you, especially in such an uncreative and blatant way.

If you ask me, the DM ambushed you.

Lots of DMs view the paladin as a outlet for their own B.S. morality plays:

"How could you slaughter those goblin women and children? You should have tried to redeem them!"

D&D disagrees with this stance:

The third consideration is one of discrimination. Violence cannot be considered good when it is directed against noncombatants (including childrend and the females of at least some races and cultures.) Placing a fireball so that it's area includes orc women and children as well as warriors and barbarians IS EVIL, since the noncombatant orcs are not a threat and are comparatively defenseless.

Killing women and children is evil.

Furthermore.....

In fact, even launching a war upon a nearby tribe of evil orcs is not necessarily good if the attack comes without provocation--the mere existance of evil orcs is not a just cause for war against them, if the orcs have been causing no harm.

joe b.

 

[mroberon1972]

The paladin is a religious warrior.

He is a defender of innocents, slayer of evil, and symbol of justice.

Not local laws... JUSTICE...

He is the sword of his god. He's built to be the hand of his lord's retribution.

He is not a police officer.

HE IS THE LAW!

It comes down to this: Ask your game master if the character's god advocates turning over the defiler to a MORTAL COURT, as opposed to his hand-picked paladin for justice.

Now local law might run him in, but all religions get persicuted sooner or later...

 

[Piratecat]

Killing him in front of the child was also wrong.

I sure disagree with that. Frankly, seeing the molester cut down would probably be a lot less scary to the child than anything that the molester had already done to her. A paladin lives to vanquish evil, and I think this a clear-cut example of evil in action. I'm with Wulf on this, and wouldn't strip away the paladin's powers.

 

[Darklone]

Wulf I do have to disagree. The DM set a trap for the paladin, sure. But he gave him a warning.

Perhaps he should have talked with the player before the class choice how he envisions a paladin. Right.

But I'm really surprised how many people here see the shining beacon of virtue and honor as a guy who walks around and kills helpless people from behind.

The problem whether a paladin has some authority about execution or not is usually discussed in my groups before gametime. Since there are many gods and many laws, it's usually not the case. The paladins player should know that.

In this case, the paladin reacted like a Lawful Good fighter. Not like a paladin. I would propose to take this as an opportunity for roleplaying (in fact, some of the first posts did that already).

Wulf: Paladins cannot be paralyzed into inaction. Right. But as soon as they use the same methods as the others, where is the difference (see the earlier Nietzsche quote)? They lead by example and promote good by example. Something this particular paladin did not do.

Edit: Summary: The DM is right. But he should have taken care of this problem of a different worldview before the problem occured, not afterwards.

 

[Janx]

This was obviously a DM trap. The player even had a warning that the DM was up to no good.

However, the DM played it wrong. This is not a fall-from-grace scenario. That requires corruption and deceipt on the paladin's part.

So, in the eyes of his god, he should be OK. At the worst case, his church/god gives him a reprimand (should have found another way).

It's the murder trial for the man in the backroom who was taking a leak, where things get interesting. Now the Paladin must protect the young girl's honor. Does he take the blame, or does he reveal the girl's secret and put her through the rigors of trial?

Killing a bad guy should not cause a paladin to fall from grace. It's that simple. There may be other in-character complications to his actions.

If the DM doesn't have a 3-4 page treatise on how paladins should behave, then the DM has to accept that the player is mostly defining the paladin's code on his own, and has to accept that definition within practical limitations.

Janx

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think your DM ought to be stripped of his powers for trying to entrap you, especially in such an uncreative and blatant way.

If you ask me, the DM ambushed you.

Lots of DMs view the paladin as a outlet for their own B.S. morality plays:

"How could you slaughter those goblin women and children? You should have tried to redeem them!"

D&D disagrees with this stance:
...
Killing women and children is evil.

I think Wulf's criticism of the DM is well-motivated. Also, attacking the Wulf's weakest point while ignoring several good ones isn't a good way to get at the truth.