My take on the Tactical Warlord section of Warlord Essentials. (Now revised.)

[Obryn]

What you see as lacking foresight is what I view as prudent power selection. It is superior to have two options that grant you similar, yet distinct, results well than to have one of those be something you can do perform in certain cases only in certain scenarios and only half-heartedly. Take a Censure of Unity avenger, for example. She can use Leading Strike when she has an ally available to grant the bonus to, and Overwhelming Strike for when positioning is going to provide a great benefit, for charges, for opportunity attacks, and for attacks granted by a leader.

And here's where your argument falls apart - in the italics. Superior how? The numbers are important, but you're ignoring situationality and real combat encounters in favor of what's more optimized in an ideal situation. Taking an At-Will you'd only use 10% of the time under the same conditions as your other At-Will is, IMO, rather wasteful when you could instead take a second power which makes you relevant even in non-ideal situations.

So you're saying "superior." Superior how?

See above. Commander's Strike and Opening Shove are similar, yet they are different keys for different locks.

...Whereas Wolf Pack Tactics is yet another key for another lock.

(What's more, I'm rather surprised to see you list Opening Shove at all... If used for an attack, it requires two attack rolls and consequently has a very poor success rate. If it's used just for movement, you're doing no damage at all, and it's something your Controller should probably be doing.)

Don't get me wrong - I completely understand that some at-wills are better or worse than others. But you're entirely devaluing flexibility, and are seemingly content to consider a character "optimal" even if they're useless in non-ideal situations.

-O

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Just as you can play a rogue and wield a short sword rather than a dagger, a rapier, or a double sword, you can play a warlord with a khopesh (a +2 proficiency bonus weapon). You simply shall not be as effective as a character with a better weapon.

yea, it is only that who gets to say whitch is better?

The magic item in question is not very impressive, and it leaves no room for items such as Iron Armbands of Power or Couters of Second Chances.

It is fun and openes up a whole new option.. well the arm bands just adds damage...

See above. Commander's Strike and Opening Shove are similar, yet they are different keys for different locks.

yet both are similar locks...well the other at wills are diffrent locks intirely...

 

[Daemonfey]

Good thread and good alternative. I would prefer this over the article.

I disagree that these suggestions hurt versatility: they offer some "must" choises and leave lots of space open. But having those must-have, you can be sure your char won't be hurtless or ends up disrupting combat - like many warlords I saw.

First, let's face it: warlord is hard for new players to pick. Second, something like 'Reach weapons are good for your build, but other weapons can work great for you too?' You know what that accomplishes? Jack. Because you're back to square one since you've recommended everything, thus nothing. And third, new players will always pick what the guide says: so you will give him some nice, solid options so he can enjoy himself, or give them a bad guide that will create sub-par character that will be useless, kill themselves and the party and make the new player unhappy? Maybe so much he would give up the game?

And don't go in delusions: new players like to be taken by the hand - and this what this alternative guide does, and does WELL. It's either that or a) using another suggestion of build, b) nagging the DM "What should I pick"?

This saves work for both and assures the new player has an enjoyable first game.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Touhou...uh...person, what are you even doing in ENWorld what is this :3c

 

[Daemonfey]

And an addendum:

I lurk this place for more than a year, and yet, this thread made me post. As a subscriber, I felt a little robbed by paying for subpar advice. We're receiving better advice for free. You may disagree, but it doesn't make less good. Or less free.

Freedom is good, but new players often appreciate being hand-held into picking good choices than being left to fend for themselves in the wild with a bunch of mediocre to good feats that they have to sort for themselves

The article is long enough, but it's justified because of the good advice. If a batch of mediocre options are added for the sake of 'freedom'? Even longer, maybe even twice as long, and beginners are going to go 'blah' and get overwhelmed.

So, every time a new player asks me "I want to make a warlord, but I don't know how. Will you help me?" I'll hand him this. And he will like his warlord.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Good thread and good alternative. I would prefer this over the article.

I prefered the old one, even if I didn't hink it was perfect...

I disagree that these suggestions hurt versatility: they offer some "must" choises and leave lots of space open.

as soon as you teach new players that some things (feat, powers, weapons) are 'must' choices you limit them and hurt versatility...

This saves work for both and assures the new player has an enjoyable first game.

at the cost of being able to play what they want compaired to what is a 'must'

Every playstyle is diffrent, for your play style you have the op board and the guids...why fault having a diffrent mind set in this?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

And an addendum:

me too

I lurk this place for more than a year, and yet, this thread made me post. As a subscriber, I felt a little robbed by paying for subpar advice. We're receiving better advice for free. You may disagree, but it doesn't make less good. Or less free.

I think that is way too bianary...yes ont he scale from 1-10 for optimazation this article (heck this whole series of them) is a 5 or 6, well the op board is a 8 or 9...BUT this is not ment to make 'optimized' characters but viaable and fun...and if it is pass or fail we need to ask...does it make useable fun characters...

Freedom is good, but new players often appreciate being hand-held into picking good choices than being left to fend for themselves in the wild with a bunch of mediocre to good feats that they have to sort for themselves

mediocre to good feats are fine...it is BAD feats we need to avoid...

So, every time a new player asks me "I want to make a warlord, but I don't know how. Will you help me?" I'll hand him this. And he will like his warlord.

I will tell them, well your Str needs to be atleast a 16, the higher it is the more often you will hit... your cha or int (based on build) should be your next highest stat... other then that there are dozens of diffrent ways to build each build...If I where you I would ask myself "How do I see this character in my mind"

 

[Daemonfey]

That is all beautiful, but I think you don't understand how much a Warlord that doesn't know his place or what to do can screw up a party. And that will ruin the fun of the party.

What does a char needs to be fun?

A good player.

Options.

A good GM.

A fun group.

A fun campaign.

So... only part of those depends on the build. And as far I can see, this article help.

On and all, this is pretty good deal for your money.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Good thread and good alternative. I would prefer this over the article.

I disagree that these suggestions hurt versatility: they offer some "must" choises and leave lots of space open. But having those must-have, you can be sure your char won't be hurtless or ends up disrupting combat - like many warlords I saw.

First, let's face it: warlord is hard for new players to pick. Second, something like 'Reach weapons are good for your build, but other weapons can work great for you too?' You know what that accomplishes? Jack.

If you manage to explain the advantages and disadvantages, you accomplish a lot. Because you allow people to make an educated choice. You teach people what to look out for.

If you just say "take this and only this, don't look at the rest" they get _one_ build. But they don't learn how to be creative with their choices, what to look for. They don't really learn the "art" of playing the game.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That is all beautiful, but I think you don't understand how much a Warlord that doesn't know his place or what to do can screw up a party. And that will ruin the fun of the party.

really??

lets take a lousy warlord (and I mean above and beyond in the bad end) he has a 13 Str, and 14 Int (lord know what he did with his points) he misses with leading the attack...giving a +1 to attack and already did half damage... on an action point he gives +1 to hit...

how does this hurt again???