My take on the Tactical Warlord section of Warlord Essentials. (Now revised.)

[Daemonfey]

If you manage to explain the advantages and disadvantages, you accomplish a lot. Because you allow people to make an educated choice. You teach people what to look out for.

If you just say "take this and only this, don't look at the rest" they get _one_ build. But they don't learn how to be creative with their choices, what to look for. They don't really learn the "art" of playing the game.

Freedom is great. But when you're an empty slate you need some walls and solid ground. You will want baby steps. Let them learn the art when they're ready. Both the original and this version aim to "greener players". And I give thumbs up to both articles, but I prefer this one.

really??

lets take a lousy warlord (and I mean above and beyond in the bad end) he has a 13 Str, and 14 Int (lord know what he did with his points) he misses with leading the attack...giving a +1 to attack and already did half damage... on an action point he gives +1 to hit...

how does this hurt again???

You're only think atributes. I can tell you horrible stories about poor leaders that boggled down and killed entire parties because of poor use of their abilities, poor selection of powers and really over stretching. I could tell you stories about one particular awful dwarf warlord, but they're so unbelievable that you will just call "bull" - and for a reason, I would too.

And at the time I would prefer to have this guide with me. It would save an entire campaign and prevent a gaming group to split.

In fact, if there is something that BOTH articles may be wrong, is the lack of pointers about how and when the new player should use his powers. And even so, this version is more helpful in that.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You're only think atributes. I can tell you horrible stories about poor leaders that boggled down and killed entire parties because of poor use of their abilities, poor selection of powers and really over stretching. I could tell you stories about one particular awful dwarf warlord, but they're so unbelievable that you will just call "bull" - and for a reason, I would too.

really? what did he do forget to use his minor action heals...becuse I can't imagin it being anywhere near as bad as you make it sound...




so please example of this...

 

[Daemonfey]

Well, let me say this:

He had bot Commander Strike and Brash Assault... yes.

And he didn't forget his Second Wind. Oh Noes. His first action was always Brash Assault THEN use the Second Wind... whatever the damaged.

Yes. And with 16 Str he still complained about missing half the time.

Yes, and this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Well, let me say this:

He had bot Commander Strike and Brash Assault... yes.

And he didn't forget his Second Wind. Oh Noes. His first action was always Brash Assault THEN use the Second Wind... whatever the damaged.

Yes. And with 16 Str he still complained about missing half the time.

Yes, and this isn't even the tip of the iceberg.

so he wasted his own healing, and used at wills...how did this rin others fun??

 

[Daemonfey]

- Only healer.
- Insisted on DELAYING.
- Always did this but still took an hour without exaggeration AT LEAST to take his action.

Also, had poor Reflex and Wills, was weaker than the wizard and warlock and was still the first to rush.

And trolled us with Knight's Move.

And then MC in Fighter and kept stealing the marks of both me and the paladin.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

- Only healer.

so eaither you should ask 'can you heal me?" or you did and he was being a jerk..

- Insisted on DELAYING.
- Always did this but still took an hour without exaggeration AT LEAST to take his action.

ok, so he needed help as a new player...

Also, had poor Reflex and Wills, was weaker than the wizard and warlock and was still the first to rush.

And trolled us with Knight's Move.

And then MC in Fighter and kept stealing the marks of both me and the paladin.

so a new player beign a bit of a jerk and not learning...how does that make a group fall apart? I mean at worst find a new leader...

 

[Daemonfey]

Ok, now you're trying to try to convince yourself that it didn't disrupt table play.

Once, we played three games of Carcassone while he played his turn. I think this shows well how much he ruined the game for everyone.

 

[Obryn]

Ok, now you're trying to try to convince yourself that it didn't disrupt table play.

Once, we played three games of Carcassone while he played his turn. I think this shows well how much he ruined the game for everyone.

I wouldn't blame that on a badly-made character, though.

That's a disruptive player who I wouldn't want at my table. Who cares what character they used? I'd rather have a good player with a 14 INT Wizard, than a player like you're describing with any character.

-O

 

[Daemonfey]

Actually, no: because in other games with other characters he can be a pretty nice guy that knows this place. But then it was his first 4E character. He overstretched, he tried to play everything, he was intoxicated in the suggestions and was serious thinking we could do all that.

So, too many options created too much expectation. So, yes. I will make my points, that for begginers, limiting the sandbox can be very productive.

 

[renau1g]

And an addendum:

I lurk this place for more than a year, and yet, this thread made me post. As a subscriber, I felt a little robbed by paying for subpar advice. We're receiving better advice for free. You may disagree, but it doesn't make less good. Or less free.

Freedom is good, but new players often appreciate being hand-held into picking good choices than being left to fend for themselves in the wild with a bunch of mediocre to good feats that they have to sort for themselves

The article is long enough, but it's justified because of the good advice. If a batch of mediocre options are added for the sake of 'freedom'? Even longer, maybe even twice as long, and beginners are going to go 'blah' and get overwhelmed.

So, every time a new player asks me "I want to make a warlord, but I don't know how. Will you help me?" I'll hand him this. And he will like his warlord.

Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible - Here. Here's what you give your player if you want him to make a new PC. The guidebooks are what I'm referring to. They help new players avoid pitfalls.