Mythological Figures: Odysseus/Ulysses (5E)

In Mythological Figures today we’re headed after a person that is more popular in terms of ancient Western mythologies than probably anyone else: Odysseus/Ulysses!

Odysseus is known for two principal things: his role in the Trojan War (recounted in The Illiad) and his long, perilous journey back home collectively known as The Odyssey. If you find yourself saying, “that word looks familiar…” that’s what I’m talking about with Odysseus’ lasting popularity--the whole reason we have a word for “a long series of wanderings or adventures, especially when filled with notable experiences, hardships, etc.” is this guy right here. I’ve no intention to repeat the entirety of that trip here and instead refer folks to better resources for that (Wikipedia, Video SparkNotes, full text at The Internet Classics Archive). Suffice to say that of the many greek heroes, Odysseus is Captain Greece.

Design Notes: Odysseus needs to be a few things--he’s got to be clever and wise, have some agility, he’s not weak, and he’s good with a bow. With that in mind we’ve got our first ranged battlemaster build with a healthy dose of mastermind rogue to reflect his legendary cunning. The archery fighting style and a smattering of feats fill out the rest of his iconic profile, with Expertise ramping up the essential skills for his many successes to whopping +15s. For the CR equation this time around the DMG said 10.6, the Blog of Holding rubric claimed 11, and I’m inclined to agree with the latter--Odysseus here is definitely a considerably dangerous foe and as long as he’s not wasted in a suicidal charge will be an NPC that adventurers will quickly decide to focus their ire upon.

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Odysseus
Medium humanoid (human), rogue (genius) 9/fighter (master of battle) 11

Armor Class 17 (breastplate or 19 with shield)
Hit Points 101 (9d8+11d10)
Speed 30 ft.

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
12 (+1)​	16 (+3)​	10 (+0)​	16 (+3)​	16 (+3)​	14 (+2)​

Saving Throws Dex +9, Int +9
Skills Deception +14, History +9, Insight +15, Investigation +15, Perception +9, Persuasion +14
Tools gaming set +6, thieves’ tools +6
Senses passive Perception 19
Languages Common, two other languages
Challenge 11 (7,200 XP)

Background: Noble - Prince. Due to his position as a noble, Odysseus is treated with a measure of respect wherever he goes. He is treated as royalty (or as closely as possible) by most peasants and traders (at least until it is clear he is quite mad), and as an equal when meeting other authority figures (who make time in their schedule to see him if requested to do so).

Action Surge (1/Short Rest). Once on his turn, Odysseus can take an additional action on top of his regular action and a possible bonus action.

Cunning Action (1/Turn). Odysseus can take a bonus action to take the Dash, Disengage, Help, or Hide action.

Evasion. When Odysseus is subjected to an effect that allows him to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, he instead takes no damage if he succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if he fails.

Fast Learner. After Odysseus has heard a creature speak for 1 minute or longer, he can mimic its manner of speaking as long as he knows the same language as the creature (allowing him to seem like he is local to a given region).

Feat: Brilliant. Odysseus always knows how long it will be before the next sunset or sunrise, the northerly direction, and can perfectly remember anything he’s experienced within the last 31 days.

Feat: Diplomatic. Odysseus can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by the Wisdom (Insight) check of a creature that can understand what he says during 1 minute of talking. On a success, as long as Odysseus remains within 60 feet of it (and for 1 minute afterward) the target is charmed by him. Odysseus automatically fails on the check if he or his companions are fighting the target.

Feat: Moderate Protection Master. Odysseus adds +3 from Dexterity instead of +2 when he is wearing medium armor.

Feat: Superb Aim. Odysseus ignores half cover and three-quarters cover when making a ranged weapon attack, and he doesn’t have disadvantage when attacking at long range. When Odysseus makes his first ranged weapon attack in a turn, he can choose to take a -5 penalty to his ranged weapon attack rolls in exchange for a +10 bonus to ranged weapon damage.

Indomitable (1/Long Rest). Odysseus can reroll a saving throw that he fails but must use the new roll.

Maneuver Master (5d10/Short Rest). Odysseus can expend a maneuver dice to perform a single maneuver with an attack.

• Command. Odysseus uses his bonus action to forgo one of his attacks and direct a friendly creature who can see or hear him. The creature uses its reaction and makes a weapon attack, dealing 1d10 extra weapon damage on a successful hit.
• Disarm. A creature Odysseus has hit with an attack takes 1d10 additional damage and makes a DC 17 Strength saving throw or drops one held item of his choice.
• Inspire. Odysseus uses a bonus action and chooses an ally able to see and hear him. That ally gains 1d10+2 temporary hit points.
• Maneuver. On a successful hit with a weapon attack, Odysseus deals 1d10 extra damage and chooses a friendly creature that can see and hear him. That creature can move half its speed by using its reaction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from the target of Odysseus’ attack.
• Trip. Odysseus deals 1d10 additional damage and if the target is a creature of Large size or smaller, it makes a DC 17 Strength saving throw or is knocked prone.

Second Wind (1/Short Rest). On his turn, Odysseus can use a bonus action to regain 1d10+11 hit points.

Sneak Attack (1/Turn). Odysseus deals an extra 17 (5d6) damage when he hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of Odysseus that isn’t incapacitated and Odysseus doesn’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.

Tactician. Odysseus is able to use the Help action to aid an ally attacking a creature as long as the target of the attack is able to see and hear Odysseus and is within 30 feet of him.

Tactician’s Insight. After Odysseus has observed or interacted with a creature for 1 minute, he learns whether or not it has higher or lower Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma scores than him. In addition, he learns if the target has more or fewer class levels than him. Odysseus also knows when he and the target have equal scores in one of these categories.

ACTIONS

Extra Attack. Odysseus attacks three times.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6+3) piercing damage.
Longbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, range 600 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d8+3) piercing damage.

 

[Guest 6801328]

The more I think about it, the more I think Odysseus must have been a Warlock.

1) Athena is very clearly his patron.

2) He has high Charisma, and uses Deception/Persuasion a lot.

3) He uses Disguise Self and Alter Self

4) His bow is a magic bow he bound as his pact weapon (and then, for whatever reason, decided to leave in Ithaca...)

5) Um...it's just more fun to imagine than a boring old Fighter.

 

[Beowulf]

It's not certain, because Homer doesn't give enough information, but it is the explanation that accounts for what is in the poems, and I (at least) know of no other explanation that does.

Yes, I totally get that argument. AND we don't worry about trying to "explain" the Cyclops, or the Sirens, or any of the other wondrous things that happen in the Odyssey. So I'm not sure I get why it becomes necessary to find an historically/technologically accurate explanation for this one detail, or why such an explanation should hold any weight. This is a myth, not history.

 

[jasper]

In Mythological Figures today we’re headed after a person that is more popular in terms of ancient Western mythologies than probably anyone else: Odysseus/Ulysses!

Odysseus is known for two principal things: his role in the Trojan War (recounted in The Illiad) and his long, perilous journey back home collectively known as The Odyssey. If you find yourself saying, “that word looks familiar…” that’s what I’m talking about with Odysseus’ lasting popularity--the whole reason we have a word for “a long series of wanderings or adventures, especially when filled with notable experiences, hardships, etc.” is this guy right here. I’ve no intention to repeat the entirety of that trip here and instead refer folks to better resources for that (Wikipedia, Video SparkNotes, full text at The Internet Classics Archive). Suffice to say that of the many greek heroes, Odysseus is Captain Greece.

Design Notes: Odysseus needs to be a few things--he’s got to be clever and wise, have some agility, he’s not weak, and he’s good with a bow. With that in mind we’ve got our first ranged battlemaster build with a healthy dose of mastermind rogue to reflect his legendary cunning. The archery fighting style and a smattering of feats fill out the rest of his iconic profile, with Expertise ramping up the essential skills for his many successes to whopping +15s. For the CR equation this time around the DMG said 10.6, the Blog of Holding rubric claimed 11, and I’m inclined to agree with the latter--Odysseus here is definitely a considerably dangerous foe and as long as he’s not wasted in a suicidal charge will be an NPC that adventurers will quickly decide to focus their ire upon.

---

Odysseus
Medium humanoid (human), rogue (genius) 9/fighter (master of battle) 11

Armor Class 17 (breastplate or 19 with shield)
Hit Points 101 (9d8+11d10)
Speed 30 ft.

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
12 (+1)​	16 (+3)​	10 (+0)​	16 (+3)​	16 (+3)​	14 (+2)​

Saving Throws Dex +9, Int +9
Skills Deception +14, History +9, Insight +15, Investigation +15, Perception +9, Persuasion +14
Tools gaming set +6, thieves’ tools +6
Senses passive Perception 19
Languages Common, two other languages
Challenge 11 (7,200 XP)

Background: Noble - Prince. Due to his position as a noble, Odysseus is treated with a measure of respect wherever he goes. He is treated as royalty (or as closely as possible) by most peasants and traders (at least until it is clear he is quite mad), and as an equal when meeting other authority figures (who make time in their schedule to see him if requested to do so).

Action Surge (1/Short Rest). Once on his turn, Odysseus can take an additional action on top of his regular action and a possible bonus action.

Cunning Action (1/Turn). Odysseus can take a bonus action to take the Dash, Disengage, Help, or Hide action.

Evasion. When Odysseus is subjected to an effect that allows him to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, he instead takes no damage if he succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if he fails.

Fast Learner. After Odysseus has heard a creature speak for 1 minute or longer, he can mimic its manner of speaking as long as he knows the same language as the creature (allowing him to seem like he is local to a given region).

Feat: Brilliant. Odysseus always knows how long it will be before the next sunset or sunrise, the northerly direction, and can perfectly remember anything he’s experienced within the last 31 days.

Feat: Diplomatic. Odysseus can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by the Wisdom (Insight) check of a creature that can understand what he says during 1 minute of talking. On a success, as long as Odysseus remains within 60 feet of it (and for 1 minute afterward) the target is charmed by him. Odysseus automatically fails on the check if he or his companions are fighting the target.

Feat: Moderate Protection Master. Odysseus adds +3 from Dexterity instead of +2 when he is wearing medium armor.

Feat: Superb Aim. Odysseus ignores half cover and three-quarters cover when making a ranged weapon attack, and he doesn’t have disadvantage when attacking at long range. When Odysseus makes his first ranged weapon attack in a turn, he can choose to take a -5 penalty to his ranged weapon attack rolls in exchange for a +10 bonus to ranged weapon damage.

Indomitable (1/Long Rest). Odysseus can reroll a saving throw that he fails but must use the new roll.

Maneuver Master (5d10/Short Rest). Odysseus can expend a maneuver dice to perform a single maneuver with an attack.

• Command. Odysseus uses his bonus action to forgo one of his attacks and direct a friendly creature who can see or hear him. The creature uses its reaction and makes a weapon attack, dealing 1d10 extra weapon damage on a successful hit.
• Disarm. A creature Odysseus has hit with an attack takes 1d10 additional damage and makes a DC 17 Strength saving throw or drops one held item of his choice.
• Inspire. Odysseus uses a bonus action and chooses an ally able to see and hear him. That ally gains 1d10+2 temporary hit points.
• Maneuver. On a successful hit with a weapon attack, Odysseus deals 1d10 extra damage and chooses a friendly creature that can see and hear him. That creature can move half its speed by using its reaction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from the target of Odysseus’ attack.
• Trip. Odysseus deals 1d10 additional damage and if the target is a creature of Large size or smaller, it makes a DC 17 Strength saving throw or is knocked prone.

Second Wind (1/Short Rest). On his turn, Odysseus can use a bonus action to regain 1d10+11 hit points.

Sneak Attack (1/Turn). Odysseus deals an extra 17 (5d6) damage when he hits a target with a weapon attack and has advantage on the attack roll, or when the target is within 5 feet of an ally of Odysseus that isn’t incapacitated and Odysseus doesn’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.

Tactician. Odysseus is able to use the Help action to aid an ally attacking a creature as long as the target of the attack is able to see and hear Odysseus and is within 30 feet of him.

Tactician’s Insight. After Odysseus has observed or interacted with a creature for 1 minute, he learns whether or not it has higher or lower Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma scores than him. In addition, he learns if the target has more or fewer class levels than him. Odysseus also knows when he and the target have equal scores in one of these categories.

ACTIONS

Extra Attack. Odysseus attacks three times.
Shortsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d6+3) piercing damage.
Longbow. Ranged Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, range 600 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d8+3) piercing damage.

 

[dave2008]

For the life of me I don't know why you give such (relatively speaking) low ability scores for mythological figures. A 12 Strength of Odysseus?! That's just the obvious one, but all of them are way too low.

Mike has made this pretty clear from the beginning and every time this is brought up, but I will just repeat my response from post #10 in this thread:

"Though I generally agree with you, I believe the intent of this series is to make it as RAW as possible. As such, it is difficult if not impossible to get all high numbers and the feats you need to create Odysseus and use point buy (which is what I think he is using). I would revise some things, but I don't think you can reasonably get three 18s with the concept of this series."

EDIT: To clarify, the point of this thread is not to create a NPC that best reflects a mythic hero, but the more difficult challenge of creating a mythic hero with the RAW PC rules, and then discuss what changes we would make within the concept of the thread. It is an interesting challenge, not a definitive D&D Obysseus.

Its like taking a mythic hero and imaging them as a real person (in D&D terms) and then making stats for them. So if Odysseus was real, what would he really be like? And then debate what he come up with.

 

[Beowulf]

He then fired it through seven axe handles. Or at least the rings on the back which I would think needs a pretty strong draw to flatten the arc of the arrow. Unless they were very close together. I am not an archer so I don’t know.

They were not all of the same length, and he had the foresight to make sure they were arranged in a perfect parabola.

 

[Garthanos]

Here is an idea the Prince of Persia Acrobatic Rogue but with a dash of Leadership

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Though I generally agree with you, I believe the intent of this series is to make it as RAW as possible. As such, it is difficult if not impossible to get all high numbers and the feats you need to create Odysseus and use point buy (which is what I think he is using). I would revise some things, but I don't think you can reasonably get three 18s with the concept of this series.

RAW, the primary method of stat generation is to roll for it, so it's entirely legal to say that Odysseus naturally started with multiple 18s.

 

[Kobold Stew]

What the greeks meant by wisdom in battle seemed more like cleverness and trickiness with a dash of knowing when to run (maybe). Ulysses loved taunting or rubbing it in when he maybe shouldn't have to my thinking it wasn't what we think of as wise though I suppose perception was likely there. It would be reasonable to give the character meh wisdom while riding significantly higher on Str .

Od 13.297-8, Athena says to him "You are among mortals the best in council/advice and speech/stories.

It's not just wisdom in battle.

Personally, I think it would still be within the OPs ambit to grant divine boons to boost stats where the literary characters are demi gods or favoured by the gods.

His strength was considered proof of his divine status and a significant story feature ... sigh sad.

Or, perhaps more appropriately, the gods favoured him because of his high stats.
We see Athena making him more beautiful, but I can't think of anything else where it's divine favour that is helping him out (though we are regularly left to infer Athena does help, which is why I suggested the Lucky feat above).

Also I know it has been a long time since I took classics, but I never remember Strength being a core trait of Odysseus. At least not compared to Herakles, Theseus, Achilles, or even Perseus. Similarly, he is rarely portrayed in movies as particularly strong. In general we seem to emphasis / value his other traits. The only feat of strength I can think of off the top of my head is the stringing his bow. And that could be expertise in athletics or just a bunch of wimps in his court room you couldn't do it It seems like a a low strength (but training or maybe expertise in athletics) night be a reasonable approach. Though I still think a bit higher STR is in order. But like I said, my memory is hazy.

Odysseus' "strength" is shown (as far as I remember):
Il. 23 speed and wrestling
Od 5 staying afloat for days (cf. Beowulf, actually)
Od 8 throwing a discus further than anyone else
Od 9 holding his body under a ram
Stringing the bow, as others have mentioned, works at the speed of plot -- it is a strength challenge for the suitors and Telemachus (who alone is able to do it); for him it is instant.

 

[pemerton]

To clarify, the point of this thread is not to create a NPC that best reflects a mythic hero, but the more difficult challenge of creating a mythic hero with the RAW PC rules, and then discuss what changes we would make within the concept of the thread. It is an interesting challenge, not a definitive D&D Obysseus.

Its like taking a mythic hero and imaging them as a real person (in D&D terms) and then making stats for them. So if Odysseus was real, what would he really be like? And then debate what he come up with.

This doesn't fully address some of the comments, though, like Why is STR so lacking when Odysseus was renowned for his strength. There are feats in this build (eg Brilliant) that could be traded for STR without apparent loss.

Also, the OP does say

Odysseus here is definitely a considerably dangerous foe and as long as he’s not wasted in a suicidal charge will be an NPC that adventurers will quickly decide to focus their ire upon.

So the build is intended to be a NPC, not a PC, and there is no requirement in the 5e rules that a "real person" NPC follow PC build rules - eg NPCs have proficiency bonuses that follow their CR, not their PC level (insofar as that might be inferred by, say, spells useable).

There's also a bigger question, also relating to your idea of "real person" - it's at least open to argument that if the ruleset can't model a hero like Odysseus then there is a weakness in the ruleset.

 

[Garthanos]

I'm familiar with the Happy Hour warlord but disagree with the assertion that it'd be a good fit for Odysseus. Does he do a lot with his minions other than, like, constantly sacrifice them? Over and over?

Sounds like the Beowulf build LOL

Come to think of it I have actually been pondering a Beowulf Build of Warlord one of the Powers might be called "Bait." it basically sets up you or a cooperative ally for something like a come and get it maneuver where you and your allies gain insight into the enemies weakness for the remainder of the battle.