Native American Campaign Setting?

[blackshirt5]

And Angcuru um but with your attitude (as portrayed in the above post at least) the only 'pureblood' (whatever that means) with a tomahawk you'll likely to meet is one throwing it at you!

I think I get what he meant by that though, he wants to meet and talk to an American Indian(I've heard that Columbus actually called the "In Dios", which meant "People of God", and it later got bastardized into Indians by others) who knows about their culture and history, which Toni doesn't.

 

[Angcuru]

that's basically it. no watered-down folk for me.

 

[CWD]

Nyambe is a good example of the kind of game I would see as problematic. It attempts to reduce the whole of Africa into a vague cultural cliche. Ghana, the Shona and other important cultures are omitted to the detriment of creating a world that attracts people because of the diversity of cultures and adventures that exist in an African-style setting.

I guess my point is that one produces far better material by digesting and understanding history and then deviating from it than by not bothering to understand the history and presenting a one-dimensional charicature.
[/i] [/B]

I hate to derail this topic, but I have to defend myself just a teeny bit.

Nyambe is a fantasy world based on African mythology, history, and legends. It isn't real Africa and isn't supposed to be. However, I can't imagine how you can say I didn't bother to understand African history.

To use your example of the Shona and Ghana: Dzimba Dza Mabwe is based on the ruins of Great Zimbabwe, which is a Shona ruin. The gold-trading activities of Mabwe are based on the gold-trading activities of Ghana. Boha-Boha has similarities to Benin. Bashar'ka in some ways resembles Ethiopia, but so does Mademba. Taumau-Boha is both Kush and Egypt. Nibomay is similar both Lybia and Dahomey. The Tuslan have some similarities to both the Fulani and the San. The Mbanta have some things in common with the Dogon. The Shombe resemble both the Maasai and the Zulu. The Kaya vua Samaki are based on East African "fish catching villages" that traded with India. And so on...

No there isn't a one-for-one correlation between these real world kingdoms/cultures and my fantasy ones. For example, I call the Emperor of Mabwe an Oba, but that title belonged to the King of Benin in real-life. I did this on purpose, because a direct correlation wasn't my intention.

I can understand why you might prefer a setting with a one-for-one correlation, but I don't think that degrades my work in any way. That's like saying Middle Earth is lessened by the elves only being similar to the real-world Finns instead of exactly like them.

[EDIT: Accidentally put Tisambe instead of Tuslan]

OK, now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Native Amercian cultures...

 

[fusangite]

To use your example of the Shona and Ghana: Dzimba Dza Mabwe is based on the ruins of Great Zimbabwe, which is a Shona ruin. The gold-trading activities of Mabwe are based on the gold-trading activities of Ghana. Boha-Boha has similarities to Benin. Bashar'ka in some ways resembles Ethiopia, but so does Mademba. Taumau-Boha is both Kush and Egypt. Nibomay is similar both Lybia and Dahomey. The Tisambe have some similarities to both the Fulani and the San. The Mbanta have some things in common with the Dogon. The Shombe resemble both the Maasai and the Zulu. The Kaya vua Samaki are based on East African "fish catching villages" that traded with India. And so on...

I stand corrected. Obviously, I haven't read the right/enough Nyambe materials. My apologies.

 

[CWD]

No problem, though I accidentally said Tisambe was influenced by the Fulani and San when I meant Tuslan (like I was saying about screwing up your facts...)

Anyhow, if you'd like more historical authenticity in your fantasy, great! I'm also a big Ars Magica fan.

Obviously, trying to cover all of North America in a reasonable amount of space is a wasted effort unless you're willing to "fantasize" things like I did, so you're better off concentrating on a small group of cultures. After all, if you look at the differences between the southwest, the northwest, alaksa, the south, the east coast, etc., etc. there's way too much material there to cover in detail unless you make it your life's work.

If you want to play to people's preconceptions and misconceptions, I'd suggest focusing on the Plains region to start. That's what most people think of (for right or for wrong) when they hear the word "Indian" or "Native American". Now I know you said that you want to avoid sterotypes. That's fine. Starting your effort with plains indians isn't pandering to a sterotype, since there is a lot of variety in just that one area. Just make the material as accurate as possible and let people learn where their preconceptions are correct and where they are wrong.

As usual YMMV. I'm going to bail on this thread now though, because I've got too many other things on my plate right now. Good luck!

 

[Emirikol]

There are two "Native American/First Peoples" campaigns currently published:


World of Greyhawk. The ROvers of the Barrens and the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan are direct ripoff of American First Peoples by Gygax.

Conan d20 (ok, this one's due out in January). The savages of Pictland and "Conan of the Isles" ARE direct rip-offs of whatever R.E. Howard thought they should be.

The Altruagin Clans for D&D/AD&D were another vessel for this thought process.

Dragon did a couple of issues on the subject too, but none very recently.

Maztica for FR has a native-american bent (central american)

If a product for d20AmericanSavage came out I would buy it..BUT ONLY IF IT WAS AS GOOD AS THE NYAMBE AFRICAN PRODUCT PUT OUT BY ATLAS.

If it was like the crap being put out by the porno-games-cover company, it would be a clear waste of my money, so it would need to be a FANTASY VERSION of the themes presented in North, Central, and SOuth America..not some historical ripoff either where the author just copies what some 'authority' on the subject wrote (yawn).




Emirikol







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..

 

[blackshirt5]

Thanks for the insight CWD. MAybe Plains Indians and Iroquois are the way to go.

 

[Angcuru]

Hell I just want my BAGATAWE!

 

[blackshirt5]

You misspelled it, methinks. I was watching something about the Native Americans(specifically, Pontiac's Rebellion) on the History Channel today with the Closed Captions on, and they spelled it differently.

You also pronounce it wrong IRL.

 

[mythusmage]

Okay, it looks like the choice is between the Plains Indians and the Iroquis. Depending on the final choice, here are my recommendations.

Plains Indians

First, are we dealing with Northern or Southern Plains Indians? I recommend the northern tribes, because of the greater familiarity. I also recommend concentrating on the Lakota Nation and her allies and enemies. For much the same reason.

Put the focus on the Lakota, with additional material on the Cheyenne, the Nakota, and such minor tribes as the Arapahoe and Crow. later works can expand into the Missouri River Valley, the Northern Rockies, the Southern Rockies, the Southern Plains. the Canadian Plains, and so on and so forth.

Iroquis

If the Iroquis are chosen instead we need to decide first on the historical period. Will we deal with the Iroquis of the Huron Wars, the Iroquis of the early colonial period, or the Iroquis of the American Revolution? In addition, what about the practice of torture among the Iroquis and the ritual cannibalism practiced by the Mohawk? How would that be handled?

Other Advice

Considering the size of North America I'd divide it thusly: Northern Plains, Southern Plains, Missouri River, Northern Mississippi, Southern Mississippi, Northern Rockies/Sierra Nevadas, Southern Rockies/Sierra Nevadas, The Great Basin. The North West, Northern California, Southern California, The Central Valley, Great Lakes, Eastern Woodlands, Gulf Coast, Florida, South Atlanic Coast, North Atlantic Coast, New England. Which should cover the U.S. pretty well. I will leave the task of dividing up Canada, Alaska, Mexico, and Central America to those better qualified.

One Last Thing

The Open Directory Project and The Yahoo Directory list Indian sites. Or you can do a Google search on a tribal or national name. Have fun.