Need Advice on Party Fighter

green slime

First Post
Monks make TERRIBLE front-liners...

Their prime role in the game is NOT to stand still and take the heat, but penetrate the other team's frontline and attack its weak underbelly; the supporting spellcasters and archers.

A monk focusing on doing this will do this well.

A monk focusing on taking the heat in the front-line will get mashed into monk-pulp. He doesn't have the AC, nor the hit points, nor the damage dealing capability to slug it out.

To return to the original posters question:

In your team of four you need a tank. Not a dex fighter, a tank.

You want as high AC as you can possibly get, and thus more than 13 in Dex is a waste (you are aiming for +X adamantine full plate of heavy fortification).

You should get a shield. Because you cannot afford to give +2 to +7 in Armour bonus, as the sole fighter in the team. This takes away all those exciting dual weapons, the spiked chain, and the greatsword.

I favour humans, for the extra feat, which gives you the opportunity of choosing the bastard sword Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then Weapon focus (same) and then start some other feat chain (expertise, power attack, dodge, which ever you prefer).

Stats: In order of import (Str, Con, Int, Dex, Wis, Cha).

28 point purchase suggestion:
Str 17, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 8.

Alternatively you could lower Con by one to gain extra skill points, (You only need Dex 13 if you go Dodge, an Int 13 if you go Expertise) something you'll never gain if you try and raise your Intelligence later in the game, unlike raising other stats.
 

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MasterOfHeaven

First Post
If you plan on going with a shield, you might want to add spikes onto it and dual wield with it. Take the Shield Expert feat to keep your AC bonus while attacking with it. It's actually very effective, and allows you to do dual wielding damage while retaining the high AC you get from your shield. If you do this, you will need at least a 15 Dexterity to get the appropiate dual wielding feats, however.
 

Rashak Mani

First Post
Why discuss which Class is better ?! Get them all...

I think a level of Ranger... two levels of Barbarian and maybe a little rogue + a lot of Fighter make the best combatants.

I would go for a Shield Expert and use the Ranger Dual wielding... you get to bash with shield (buy spiked shield and later magical bashing shield). AC and extra attacks... fighter feats make it easy to get. Use chain shirt... uprgrade magical AC frenquently and have a good Dex.

Since you dont have another fighter type in the group flanking becomes harder... so you dont need rogue levels... but in bigger groups a lvl or three of rogue (high levels of course) make for better damage and better reeflex and evasion saves.

Barbarian levels give you 40' move and d12 HD. Rage can be used when needed too. Uncanny dodge with your good Dex will save you many times in ambushes.

Ranger later on allows you to get impr two wpn fighting too. Skills etc...
 

Oogar

First Post
More information first, please.

1. What level of magic are you likely to encounter?

2. Will the mage and cleric be taking item creation feats, and have the time and money to use them?

3. Will the DM be making the adventures himself (Thereby unconciously controlling if you find useful items, or not), or using moduals?

4. Will it be a high, or low money situation?

5. More cities, dungeons, or out doors?

6. Is there a class you DM is likely to ride hard on (Does he hate paladins, and make them be very careful with every moral decision)?

7. Is there a class that he might give a break, or even go out of his way to help (he loves rangers and would have magical light armor all over the place)?

8. Is there an end goal (A specific PrC that has requirements you should be looking to follow from the beginning)?


If you can answer these questions, it can help decide if there is a best case plan. A high or low magic fighter can do quite well. But low money can make the fighter suffer compaired to the barbarian or ranger. There is plenty of good advice already in this topic, but it needs to have a context.
 

Victim

First Post
I can't say that I'm enamored of monks as front line fighters.

I'm basing this on non-magical analysis, since the Fighter can get magic items, as can the monk. Ki straps? Monk's Belt or Belt of Giant Strength? They're all expensive but the monk's not buying magic arms or armor and will have some cash. Greater Magic Fang can grant him short-term boosts in to-hit, although only Druids have access to it.


All classes can get magic items. However, some classes can benefit more from items that others. I've mentioned in other threads how fighter must have magic items to stand a chance against wizards. With no items, he fighter has essentially no defenses, while all the wizard's abilities are intact without them. In extreme low magic or high magic, I'd place more weight on monks. A monk with no magic increases his AC, gets magic powers, and his high level unarmed damage overtakes the fighter. With lots of magic, the monk can afford his more expensive armor, benefit from lots of magically boosts stats while the fighter's stat benefits cap off. However, with DMG magic, things are kind of even.


In fact, one could even postulate that a Monk can make better use of many magic items than can a tank Fighter. Guantlets of Dexterity don't grant much benefit to the guy in plate mail. A Periapt of Wisdom is of no great use to the Fighter, except for his Will saves and a few skills.


Pretty perceptive. :) Fighters derive more benefit from a Periapt of Wisdom than monks do from +5 plate. It's all about cost effectiveness. A fighter can get AC or damage bonuses much cheaper than a monk. Even if we assume that the monk has 18 dex and wis for the equivalent of plate, then the fighter will still pick up magic bonuses faster. Whether from ability score increases, bracers, deflection, or natural, a monk pcisk up AC at the cost of 2000*X^2. Real armor costs half as much per plus. Until much higher levels, the figheter will be better able to derive AC boosts from magic.

Magic Vestment isn't going to stack with Mage Armor. A fight with a 2 handed weapon will get a greater benefit from Bull's strength than the monk.
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I think a primary consideration is providing enemies with a compeling threat. Otherwise, they'll bypass you and beat the crap of your friends, who don't seem to much oriented toward combat. I think a greatsword and spiked armor is a good way to provide that threat. Unless the cleric is willing to do a lot of melee, YOU are the front line. In a group with a fighter and cleric on the front line, I've still seen both our arcane casters pounded into the ground many a time. If your cleric is staying in back too, then the problem is worse. Also, it's more efficient to buff and then heal one guy than to spread out spells and then waste time running around trying to heal everyone.

Between a transmutation oriented wizard and healing oriented cleric, you might not need a shield to stay alive. Just make sure the wizard has Illusion and gets Displacement and similar spells. The rogue won't get many sneak attacks, and it sounds like the spell casters aren't packing artillery. The fighter will be providing the main source of offense in the group and should probably make the most of it

A multiclass to barbarian can provide some nice short term combat bonuses and more skills. Ranger might not be useful. If the wizard tends to break out summons as a secondary spell line, then some rogue might be worthwhile.
 

Ridley's Cohort

First Post
I suggest one of three routes:

(1) Dwarven Barbarian w/2-handed weapon and breastplate: Good offense and excellent HPs for staying power. OK AC. Decent movement rate. Consider picking up Cleave.

(2) Human Fighter, sword & shield, heavy armor: excellent AC, good offense (if you layer on feats). Lots and lots of feats to play with. Consider picking up Expertise. Being an AC monster can be a good thing if you need to hold the line and slow down combat. Exotic Weapon (Bastard sword), Weapon Focus, Specialization will boost up your offense nicely.

(2) Paladin: If you have good stats and can spare a 16 for Charisma, this may be a good choice. Good saves will help a lot in a small party, as do those special abilities. (It is a real bummer when the only melee character in your party fails a Fear save, for example.) Your healing and spells help take a little pressure off the Cleric, allowing him the option to step up and fight along side you more often. Remember to slowly build up a collection of scrolls to use in an emergency.
 


Lord Ben

First Post
Go with a Dwarven Fighter/Barbarian. Not just one level of Barbarian, get 5 for the no flanking. At 9th level you cant' be flanked and have 3 bonus fighter feats to do a lot with like weapon specialization or combat reflexes or whatever you want. With Rage 2/day you'll be able to notch up the combat when you want and if you pick Dwarven Waraxe or Bastard Sword you can use a shield for when you don't need high damage.

Against goblins use your b-plate, shield, and Waraxe for 20AC and decent enough damage. Figure 16str, 16dex and you'd do 1d10+3 which is good enough to cleave goblins and low level things

Against something that won't die to a 1d10+3 (if 16str and no magic) drop your shield for 2H on the weapon and rage. Now you're doing 1d10+7 and have more to hit and your extra HP *should* make up a bit for the lesser defense. Sure, you're down to 16AC or 14 when charging but you look fierce.

I have a character I'm waiting to play using this concept. His name will by Lyon and his beard will be long and shaggy like a Lions mane (Lyon = Lion, get it?).
 

ThenHeCame

First Post
Whoa! more help then I expected! Thanks to everyone for offering their insight on this, It really does help! I suppose I should elaborate on the situation I'm in.

I'm a long term 1E player just now conforming to 3E. This is my first charcater and first real experince with the rules. I wanna build a statisticly sound fighter first, then layer on the Role Playing and Charcater devolopment later. Basicly I'm a fish out of water :(

1. What level of magic are you likely to encounter?
The campaign is set in gnereric Greyhawk. The DM has loads of source matriel.

2. Will the mage and cleric be taking item creation feats, and have the time and money to use them?
The cleric was gonna concentrate on produceing healing potions/wands and the Wizard will do the same with abilty enhancement spells.

Will the DM be making the adventures himself (Thereby unconciously controlling if you find useful items, or not), or using moduals?
The DM claims he is well versed in 3E and i know him to be an experinced dungeon master, so no doubt he create most and alter published versions of adventures to make sure the party finds items useful and useable by the them when the time calls for it. For example, if I take a particuliar intrest in spears, he'll make sure I always get a spear appriopriate for my level, if I survive the challenges.

4. Will it be a high, or low money situation?
Starts off low, then slowly moves to high as we gain levels. I'd say, he 'll stick to Mid-levels most of the time.


5. More cities, dungeons, or out doors?
80% Dungeons 10% Outdoors 10% Citites.

6. Is there a class you DM is likely to ride hard on (Does he hate paladins, and make them be very careful with every moral decision)?
Doesn't like Munchkin Magic users, least from 1E. Otherwise, no.

7. Is there a class that he might give a break, or even go out of his way to help (he loves rangers and would have magical light armor all over the place)?
The Rogue is your typical underdog, so she'll get some lucky breaks in equipment I bet early on, but otherwise, Nadda.



Is there an end goal (A specific PrC that has requirements you should be looking to follow from the beginning)?

This is an earnst attempt to start a long term campaign in Greyhawk. He made mention, he'd love to run us through a 3E version of Return to the Tomb of Horrors.
 

ThenHeCame

First Post
Met with my DM earlier today and he witnessed my Stat rolls,which are the following...

10 15 15 10 12 11. These cannot be altered in anyway unless a racial modifier does so. The only resource I can use is the DMG and the PHB.

So given with the information I have provided, what should I do? My first instinct is to chuck the to 15s in STR/CON and equip a Sheild/Longsword as a human, but, I don't want my party to be wiped out becuase I can't cut it on the battle feild...
 

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