Need help deciding how to level a Fighter/Cleric who should have been a Paladin
WarpedAcorn
First Post
Thanks for the advice. The past few posts have been good and have echoed a lot of what I've been going over in my head.
One of the things I keep asking myself is, "What does Ren do, and how can I make him better at that?". Right now his major contribution is just making sure the casters don't get hit. So far he hasn't needed to expend many spells on Healing because he is the one who has taken the hits. In fact I'm pretty sure the Sorceress and Warlock have barely been scratched this entire campaign...so far.
In terms of Action Economy, getting that 2nd Attack with 1 more level of Fighter is crucial to basically double my base damage since I predominately use the Attack action for base attacks. My Bonus Action is pretty much used up by using the Shield Mastery Shove in order to try to get Advantage on my attacks (unless there is only 1 enemy and the casters are slinging spells at it due to the Prone effects) and to limit the movement of the enemy. My Reaction is either utilizing the Protection feature or a Riposte, with the priority being towards Protection (which I am starting to see lose value as we encounter more and more enemies with multiple attacks).
Spellcasting-wise. I have not seen a huge benefit for keeping Bless going, so I have not cast it since Level 2. All the other players are sporting at least one ability score of 20, and all have their primary attack attribute with a 20 so there have been very little if any misses. Similarly, with my AC being 20, I very rarely get hit so I have never once used the Shield of Faith spell. I think I've used Guiding Bolt twice in the entire Campaign, and the Light Domain bonus Burning Hands once. I probably shield put Healing Word on my "memorized" list, but thusfar I have mostly used Cure Light Wounds to patch myself up after a fight when we have been unable to rest.
I suppose the best option is to simply go from my current Figher 4 / Cleric 1, and go Fighter - Cleric - Cleric - Cleric - Cleric to ge to Fighter 5 / Cleric 5. There is that extra ASI waiting at Fighter 6, but honestly I just don't feel I need the ability score improvement and I can't think of a game-changing Feat that doesn't conflict with what I already have. I definitely see the strategy of grabbing Resilient to get proficiency in a different save, but Lucky is basically giving me Optional-Advantage on all saves 3/day.
One of the things I keep asking myself is, "What does Ren do, and how can I make him better at that?". Right now his major contribution is just making sure the casters don't get hit. So far he hasn't needed to expend many spells on Healing because he is the one who has taken the hits. In fact I'm pretty sure the Sorceress and Warlock have barely been scratched this entire campaign...so far.
In terms of Action Economy, getting that 2nd Attack with 1 more level of Fighter is crucial to basically double my base damage since I predominately use the Attack action for base attacks. My Bonus Action is pretty much used up by using the Shield Mastery Shove in order to try to get Advantage on my attacks (unless there is only 1 enemy and the casters are slinging spells at it due to the Prone effects) and to limit the movement of the enemy. My Reaction is either utilizing the Protection feature or a Riposte, with the priority being towards Protection (which I am starting to see lose value as we encounter more and more enemies with multiple attacks).
Spellcasting-wise. I have not seen a huge benefit for keeping Bless going, so I have not cast it since Level 2. All the other players are sporting at least one ability score of 20, and all have their primary attack attribute with a 20 so there have been very little if any misses. Similarly, with my AC being 20, I very rarely get hit so I have never once used the Shield of Faith spell. I think I've used Guiding Bolt twice in the entire Campaign, and the Light Domain bonus Burning Hands once. I probably shield put Healing Word on my "memorized" list, but thusfar I have mostly used Cure Light Wounds to patch myself up after a fight when we have been unable to rest.
I suppose the best option is to simply go from my current Figher 4 / Cleric 1, and go Fighter - Cleric - Cleric - Cleric - Cleric to ge to Fighter 5 / Cleric 5. There is that extra ASI waiting at Fighter 6, but honestly I just don't feel I need the ability score improvement and I can't think of a game-changing Feat that doesn't conflict with what I already have. I definitely see the strategy of grabbing Resilient to get proficiency in a different save, but Lucky is basically giving me Optional-Advantage on all saves 3/day.
WarpedAcorn
First Post
Wait...seriously? Is that legal?
mellored
Legend
No.
Spiritual weapon is a melee spell attack. Battlemaster maneuvers require a weapon attack.
It does work with a few things, like death cleric's channel divinity, or barbarians brutal critical, which require melee attacks.
And you can parry a spiritual weapon.
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So at this point you have like what - 4 actions competing for your reaction?
Opportunity attacks, warding flare, protection and shield master reaction - seems a bit excessive.
You should definitely optimize your action economy. I'd suggest you speak to your DM and rebuild a character. Maybe Inspiring Leader with Protection style Paladin is what you need. Your previous use of Flare can be reflavored as you like.
Opportunity attacks, warding flare, protection and shield master reaction - seems a bit excessive.
You should definitely optimize your action economy. I'd suggest you speak to your DM and rebuild a character. Maybe Inspiring Leader with Protection style Paladin is what you need. Your previous use of Flare can be reflavored as you like.
WarpedAcorn
First Post
There might be 4 potential Actions for Reaction, but they are not all competing.
-Attack my nearby teammate = Protection Fighting Style
-Attack me and roll well = Warding Flare
-Attack me and miss = Riposte
-Attack me with Dex Save Attack = Shield Mastery
-Standard AoO
While they all use a Reaction, the condition each one may be used varies and provides enough opportunities to consistently take advantage of the Reaction every round.
You are right about action economy, but my concern is focused on the Bonus Action. Right now Shield Mastery shoves are the best use of my Bonus action. There are a few Cleric spells like Shield of Faith and Healing Word that compete with this right now, but also looking at future spells such as Spiritual Weapon it would be trading Advantage on x2 Attacks vs. an extra attack @ 1d8+3.
If you don't like your character, ask the DM to let you make a new one, if that is not an option, just get him killed.
I was playing a Fighter with 1 level of Bard in adventurer's league, and it was starting to be a bit of a drag, I hadn't hit 5th level yet and was free to rebuild it. I traded the fighter levels for Paladin levels and it has worked out great. Paladin 4 Bard 1, having 10 first level spells prepared including some ritual casting gives me a ton of utility and I have plenty of slots.
I took Resilient Con at 4th level, I can maintain Bless as a 2nd level spell covering 4 party members for an entire fight without losing it. If we come across an enemy immune or resistant to non-magic weapons I can use Sacred Weapon to make my Battle Axe magic as well.
I think you might have similar results if you dropped the fighter levels for a half caster like Ranger, and changed to Life Domain to maximize your healing power and gain Heavy armor proficiency. Both Rangers and Clerics use wisdom, Rangers get extra attack and some good combat spells like Hunters mark, and the third level feature for Hunters is either an extra attack or an extra d8 damage, stacking with the d8 Clerics get at level 8.
Even the War Domain features work great with Rangers. You could gain an attack as a bonus action using War Priest. This is on top of already having Extra attack from 5 levels of Ranger.
I was playing a Fighter with 1 level of Bard in adventurer's league, and it was starting to be a bit of a drag, I hadn't hit 5th level yet and was free to rebuild it. I traded the fighter levels for Paladin levels and it has worked out great. Paladin 4 Bard 1, having 10 first level spells prepared including some ritual casting gives me a ton of utility and I have plenty of slots.
I took Resilient Con at 4th level, I can maintain Bless as a 2nd level spell covering 4 party members for an entire fight without losing it. If we come across an enemy immune or resistant to non-magic weapons I can use Sacred Weapon to make my Battle Axe magic as well.
I think you might have similar results if you dropped the fighter levels for a half caster like Ranger, and changed to Life Domain to maximize your healing power and gain Heavy armor proficiency. Both Rangers and Clerics use wisdom, Rangers get extra attack and some good combat spells like Hunters mark, and the third level feature for Hunters is either an extra attack or an extra d8 damage, stacking with the d8 Clerics get at level 8.
Even the War Domain features work great with Rangers. You could gain an attack as a bonus action using War Priest. This is on top of already having Extra attack from 5 levels of Ranger.
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WarpedAcorn
First Post
Actually I do like the character. I did contemplate character suicide earlier in the campaign, but although I WANTED to play something else, I also couldn't let go of my dear Ren. I enjoy the character and the current build, but its the future and how to level that has been tough to figure out.
Ranger IS an option moving forward though. Hunters Mark and Colossus Slayer would give a solid damage boost without being as resource hungry as Divine Smite if I went a Paladin route. Story-wise, Ren has been traveling all over the land in a variety of terrain including the Underdark and Sea so thematically its not a stretch. Also, originally I had intended for him to be a Paladin Archer, but party needs pushed him into the role of the frontline tank. However, I have always played him as being a huge fan of Archery including practicing shots in his downtime. That might be something to seriously consider...
Thanks Vulf! =)
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