New character? Hybrid Fighter/Warlord or MC Fighter/Warlord or Warlord/Fighter

[Mentat55]

I think it is true that very few fighter powers encourage the use of light blades -- and most of those also can be used with heavy blades or spears. Maybe multiclass into rogue and grab a couple of interesting rogue attack powers? They are all about the light blades, if you want to play up that aspect.

 

[ourchair]

I'm glad that this is something you are taking into consideration. I was about to offer a warning about playing another defender along those lines; when an experienced player shows up a new player at whatever the newbie is trying to do (be it same class or even same role) it can be pretty demoralizing.

It seems as though you and your girlfriend are taking the best possible route; you taking over as pure defender gives the DM and your fellow player an opportunity to find another class/role that works better for her. An elegant solution and one that should serve as an example for other groups trying to ease in a new player.

Thanks!

Now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the swordmage. Her character is currently in a cultist's keep infected by blood magic zombie whatnot, so I think it wouldn't make sense to suddenly say, "okay you're now a dwarf barbarian!" nor would we want to kill off her character (bad juju when dealing with a newbie) just to introduce her new class.

Are there ways to steer her role in different ways?

I'm a little confused by Aulirophile's tactical breakdown:

Swordmages primary mark strategy is Mark and run away, since they don't have to do anything to maintain it. Mark the biggest thing around, then go help the other defender get Flanking or something. Shielding? Should go off every round, since you're as far away from the thing you Marked as you can get. Assault swordmages take a lot of teleport powers, so even if you teleport to enforce your mark every round, ditto. I would never recommend playing an Ensnaring Swordmage, so not sure how that works out.

The swordmage girl is currently playing a shielding swordmage and has the eladrin fey step power. I'm not sure how to synergize a dragonborn fighter with her character, or how to guide her so that we synergize well. I won't be playing a swordmage that's for sure.

I think it is true that very few fighter powers encourage the use of light blades -- and most of those also can be used with heavy blades or spears. Maybe multiclass into rogue and grab a couple of interesting rogue attack powers? They are all about the light blades, if you want to play up that aspect.

What kind of benefits would a fighter be striving for if I multiclass into rogue?

I'm trying to maximize my ability to keep punishing out of turn and to have more reliable attack rolls with as little damage sacrificed. (though atk is more important to me than my dmg, as I've been messing up my d20 rolls with this group more than I do with my Star Wars SAGA game.)

 

[Aulirophile]

That wasn't advice for you, I was just answering the question of why Swordmages work better as a secondary defenders.

Though if she literally never uses a minor action to mark anything you have an entirely separate set of issues.

 

[ourchair]

That wasn't advice for you, I was just answering the question of why Swordmages work better as a secondary defenders.

Though if she literally never uses a minor action to mark anything you have an entirely separate set of issues.

I see.

Now I wish I were playing the Swordmage, as she does in fact, not really mark anything. Tried coaching her on it, but I didn't want to sound like a nag. I'll just hope that her sister, who is picking up on the rules really fast, will guide her at a later point.

 

[Mentat55]

What kind of benefits would a fighter be striving for if I multiclass into rogue?

Mainly more striker-like powers. But then you'd have to invest more heavily in Dex, which is probably less than ideal.

At paragon tier, you can take Deft Blade, which lets you make basic attacks with light blades against Reflex, instead of AC. That is pretty good, esp. since as a fighter you are going to be making a lot of basic attacks with OAs and Combat Challenge. So that is one benefit for using light blades.

Otherwise, not a whole of benefits for fighters using light blades, particularly the rapier, since it is basically a longsword that you paid a feat for.

 

[ourchair]

Otherwise, not a whole of benefits for fighters using light blades, particularly the rapier, since it is basically a longsword that you paid a feat for.

Meh.

At that rate, then perhaps I should just consider going shield or two-handed, but I can't decide which one to run with. I hate taking skill penalties from being shielded, but I hate having lower defenses without it.

Perhaps I should just pursue the path of Battlerager Vigor and accept the notion that I will just be taking lower defenses but a lot of punishment absorption. With that in mind, how fares the stickiness (mark and mark attacking) of the Battlerager?

 

[Saagael]

Meh.

At that rate, then perhaps I should just consider going shield or two-handed, but I can't decide which one to run with. I hate taking skill penalties from being shielded, but I hate having lower defenses without it.

Perhaps I should just pursue the path of Battlerager Vigor and accept the notion that I will just be taking lower defenses but a lot of punishment absorption. With that in mind, how fares the stickiness (mark and mark attacking) of the Battlerager?

Based on my group's battlerager fighter, I would say it's probably the toughest of the bunch. Lower defenses, sure, but hot damn can that dwarf crank out the damage. With a mordenkrad he can do roughly 25 damage with his melee basic attack, making it nearly never worth it to provoke the OA to go after the softer targets. Not only that, but he does have 18 healing surges, which means I have a very hard time putting his life in danger.

If you're still looking at multiclassing as a leader, the battlerager in my group is paragon multiclassed cleric, giving him access to powers that are close and area burst attacks, meaning he can mark nearly anyone he wants, any time. That, and he can heal the group in a pinch, and give himself regeneration, which, when coupled with the temp HP he always has, means he can ignore about 15 damage per round.

 

[ourchair]

Based on my group's battlerager fighter, I would say it's probably the toughest of the bunch. Lower defenses, sure, but hot damn can that dwarf crank out the damage. With a mordenkrad he can do roughly 25 damage with his melee basic attack, making it nearly never worth it to provoke the OA to go after the softer targets. Not only that, but he does have 18 healing surges, which means I have a very hard time putting his life in danger.

If you're still looking at multiclassing as a leader, the battlerager in my group is paragon multiclassed cleric, giving him access to powers that are close and area burst attacks, meaning he can mark nearly anyone he wants, any time. That, and he can heal the group in a pinch, and give himself regeneration, which, when coupled with the temp HP he always has, means he can ignore about 15 damage per round.

That sounds great. I guess I will go with battleraging, but instead of multi-class cleric abilities I'll just rely on dragon breath to make multi-marks, enhanced by feats like Expanded Dragon Breath and Hurl Breath.

Right now, my DM has a story going on about blood magic and zombies, and she says she's perfectly fine with having my Dragonborn Fighter show up to replace the Changeling Wizard, but I was thinking of using multiclass to give an arcane flavor that she can tie into the story. Would a Sorcerer work, considering it has stats keyed to Dragonborn bonuses?

 

[Saagael]

Well a battlerager fighter will want to have a high strength and constitution, since the temp HP they get is almost always based on Con. I'd say if you want an arcane flavor (and don't mind the fluff), perhaps a warlock with the Pact Initiate feat to nab the infernal or vestige pact. You could say that your dragonborn spent years pouring over old tomes and texts on forms of combat, and while he learned, he started to embody those ancient powers, thus the vestige pact. Or perhaps made a deal with a devil to boost his mortal endurance beyond natural abilities.

Having Hellish Rebuke would be nice, because it makes for a ranged attack that creates a pretty nasty lose-lose situation. Use Hellish Rebuke then move adjacent to target: either they hit you and take damage, or hit someone else and take damage.

Eyes of the Vestige isn't that great, and you can't really benefit that much from it since you don't have warlock's curse, but might be fun with the proper feats.

 

[mkill]

@Ourchair: 4th edition character building works best if you do one thing and stick to it.

If you decide on Fighter Sword + Board, grab a big weapon and a shield, and pour all ressources in smacking things, and smacking things especially hard if they try anything you don't want (move away from you, shift around, attack your allies). Second, you invest in laughing into their faces when they try to attack you (thick armor, shield, stuff to shake off conditions).

Don't be distracted by all the other things you could do. Yes, you could use a rapier, yes, you could multiclass into one of 35 other classes, you could do this, you could do that. Don't. If it doesn't help with the stuff in paragraph 2, you don't need it. Let someone else in the party do it.

(If you wonder why all these options exist, then, they are for people who have too much time on their hands to check the synergy of all kinds of classes and powers to turn their characters up to 11. However, in your group 10 is loud enough.)

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As for the swordmage, I think the complexities of D&D simply didn't click with her yet. Let the player who's best at explaining (and the most patient!!) help her understand all the options her PC has. I'm pretty sure she will enjoy the game more if she can feel that she's contributing in a meaningful way. It's just that she didn't grasp what her class is supposed to do yet. Next time she's in a combat, explain her Aegis to her. Let the DM have a monster trigger the ability a few times so she can understand how it works. Once she understands how useful it is to reduce the damage on the Ranger or Cleric, I'm sure she'll do it more often.

It's important that you give her that "whoa, I didn't know I could do that!" moment.