New edition coming? Cool? Not rounding out 4th's core set? Not cool.

[Incenjucar]

4E's epic does actually work, if you use the latest numbers. It does certainly require more effort on the part of the DM, and there are huge holes mostly in monster types (Demons all the way up), but more than any other edition, it WORKS.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The 'we decided not to support Epic because no one was playing it excuse' is kinda circular. If Epic recieved some support, people would be playing it more.

And Epic does see play, it's just that Heroic sees a whole lot more. People start at Heroic, then groups break up or they want to try a different campaign or whatever. There are lots of casual gamers out there, and they don't stick it out for 30 levels. There are also plenty of serious gamers with lives who don't get to play every single week (or even month), and would like to get to Epic at some point, but will take a long time to get there.

I ran a campaign that spanned both eds of AD&D (85-94) and the highest level characters were about 18th at the end. I was in a pair of campaigns that went the whole run of 3.x, and they went through 13th or 14th. I've gotten to play more 4e, thanks to D&DE (but it re-sets at first ever 13 weeks) and the greater availability of DMs (it's just so much easier to run). Even so, the regular campaigns I've been are still in Paragon.

Now, 18th level AD&D was pretty epic, and there were certainly folks using the Epic Handbook for 3e. You had 20 years to get your AD&D character to game-breaking levels, though, and 8 for 3e.

4e hasn't even had 4 years yet.

 

[OnlineDM]

Gencon 2011 at the product seminar (one of them) the presenters talked about a DMG to cover Epic Tier sometime in 2012, maybe. The delay, and fuzziness on the date was to allow a larger portion of players to advance to the epic tier. A question I plan on bringing up at DDXP in a few weeks. I think the content should be out there, even if it is a DDI Article

Maybe they said this at some point, but I don't believe it was the 2011 GenCon New Products Seminar. I was there, and I took copious notes, and I don't recall any mention of a DMG3 for epic tier.

GenCon 2011 Day 3: D&D New Products Seminar Online Dungeon Master

 

[irontyrant]

Welcome to the world of WOTC. They love to piss off their present and past customer bases. Give it 10 years they may come around to you guys again. The even editions are the ones that have almost killed the game. So 4th had to die a deservedly awesome death.

 

[irontyrant]

Have fun with that.

 

[Kantru]

Maybe they said this at some point, but I don't believe it was the 2011 GenCon New Products Seminar. I was there, and I took copious notes, and I don't recall any mention of a DMG3 for epic tier.

GenCon 2011 Day 3: D&D New Products Seminar Online Dungeon Master

It might have been at GenCon 2010 instead of 2011. It was one where I listened to the podcast, which probably was 2010.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Maybe they said this at some point, but I don't believe it was the 2011 GenCon New Products Seminar. I was there, and I took copious notes, and I don't recall any mention of a DMG3 for epic tier.

GenCon 2011 Day 3: D&D New Products Seminar Online Dungeon Master

I always thought that was an expectation rather than a full-on plan.

I do think WOTC was thinking of doing a DMG for each tier, but never got to it. The backlash against II, II etc books started fast for 4E.

 

[Pour]

I always thought that was an expectation rather than a full-on plan.

I do think WOTC was thinking of doing a DMG for each tier, but never got to it. The backlash against II, II etc books started fast for 4E.

On a similar note, I'm extremely curious what actually is on the slate for the remainder of the 4e lifecycle. TerraDave's list only goes as far as Amazon's lists, but there is still room between the end of the list and the suspicions of 5e's release for something surprising to pop up.

I think we may have to settle for Chris Perkin's DM articles as a pseudo-DMG3. Honestly, they're not bad in that respect. I'd still have wanted my third DMG, though.

 

[Rel]

Welcome to the world of WOTC. They love to piss off their present and past customer bases. Give it 10 years they may come around to you guys again. The even editions are the ones that have almost killed the game. So 4th had to die a deservedly awesome death.

You're driving the wrong way down Dick Street.

 

[jelmore]

I like where you're going with this...

It is needed to complete the edition, I feel, and if WotC is not going to put it together, I believe someone should. I'm only just getting into DMing Epic myself, but I'd be willing to contribute what I learn along the way.

I think, more and more, fans of 4e are going to have to learn to be more self-reliant. The system is friendly toward that, though. We can do it.

MIke Shea over at Sly Flourish has written an eBook about running Epic tier D&D games called, oddly enough, Sly Flourish's Running Epic Tier D&D Games:

Sly Flourish's Running Epic Tier D&D Games