New Excerpts - Tome of Battle & Dragons of Faerun

[I'm Cleo]

Mazlo,

Assuming that "balance" is something that can or should be sought, and assuming that there's a meaningful distinction between "core" and "non-core", the question is:

Does WotC create new supplements with the goal to balance them against only Core classes? Or does WotC create new supplements with the goal to balance them against the complete WotC product?

If it's the former, then your analysis is correct and the Warblade may very well be "unbalanced". If it's the latter, then it's apples and oranges.

Just for the sake of discussion, I would suggest it's the latter, because it makes WotC more money by creating a greater demand for the ever-increasing list of D&D books (for better or worse).

I'm Cleo!

 

[Mazlo]

I'm Cleo:

Well put. I like how you stated the two cases.


I am sure that WotC intends to create supplements that are balanced against the whole WoTC library. Because I think you're right - it makes them more money to balance new content this way. I also think many people expect new content to take into account the existing library, e.g., "I could play a Warblade or I could play a Fighter with feats X,Y,Z from Complete Warrior and PHB2" instead of asking "Why play a Fighter (with feats from the PHB) when I could play a Warblade?"


I personally would prefer that WotC balanced each supplement against only the core rules. One shouldn't have to own any of the previous entries in the WotC library in order to have new content be considered balanced (unless of course the new book specifically states this is a requirement.)

--Mazlo

 

[Sammael]

Stephen Schubert (WotC designer) posted this on Hordelings in reply to a statement that Mithral Tornado maneuver is better than Whirlwind Attack and can be obtained by a warblade at 4th level (and then used every other round in combat):

Whereas the fighter with Whirlwind attack is whirlwinding every round, instead of every other round. I guess the fighter does it every other round, if he ends up having to move. But then the fighter can also pull out his longbow and shoot something...

And as someone else noted - Warblade 4 is the level of the maneuver, not the level of the warblade, so we're already talking about a 7th level character - and a character that had to use two other manuever choices on Iron Heart maneuvers.

But hey - you are all entitled to your own opinions.

This is, I think, a confirmation that there is a Warblade Maneuver Level By Class Level chart which was not included in the preview. It also shows that Maneuvers are identical to spells in this regard.

 

[I'm Cleo]

Mazlo,

Thanks.

I do see the point that even with every additional sourcebook, if you want to make a melee fighter that isn't simply DPS (i.e., Frenzied Berserker), it seems like the Tome of Battle stuff is going to be the way to go. Weapon Supremacy has some cool features to it, but it will probably not match up with Warblade 18, especially since the Warblade's fluff even seems to encroach into its territory (how each style has preferred weapons). If you wanted to make the "master of the weapon X", the styles in Tome of Battle might be the coolest (stepping back from pure mechanics for a moment -- where it might shine, too).

I'm Cleo!

 

[Nightfall]

Arn,

See and I thought I was the only one that saw that.

 

[Cadfan]

The "and used every other round" comment seems to confirm that you cannot prepare multiple copies of the same maneuver. Every other round allows for one round with the pseudo whirlwind, one round recovering it, one round using it again, one round recovering it... etc.

 

[Nightfall]

Cad,

I think we'll have to wait and see.

Me, I'm happy with Dragons of Faerun.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

In my opinion, the Warblade with its abilities (all from the ToB excerpt or Core feats) should be balanced against the core-rules Fighter and Barbarian.

There's a simple problem with that: Doing so adds the warblade to the list of classes which fall into the category "not balanced against core-rules casters".

The premise that the core-rules fighter and barbarian are balanced against the rest of the core-rules game is faulty to begin with. Judging a latecomer like the warblade against the fighter and barbarian after those core classes have been brought up to a competitive level by supplementary material is the most appropriate course of action.

 

[Nightfall]

mh,

You do bring up a good point.

*NF's two cents on Tome of Battles core class* If it's going to give people problems, it's probably not worth having around.

 

[Remathilis]

Saw tome of magic, wasn't impressed.

Saw tome of battle, even less impressed.

More money for DDMs. Next!