New Game: Arcana Evolved!

[Varianor Abroad]

Well, you're just plain wrong.

Good luck in the game. I hope you find the right character.

 

[Nifft]

Good luck in the game. I hope you find the right character.

Why thanks! And good luck to you out there in the cold, merciless Interweb.

I hope being on the wrong side of a rules dispute doesn't sour anything for you.
"Even Einstein's pencil had an eraser."

Eh maybe in your mind. I dunno if I felt that way.

Let me be clear. I think the ToB classes are balanced just fine in a normal D&D game. But I think they would not be balanced in an AE game, just like a D&D Rogue or Cleric wouldn't be balanced.

The only regret that I have is learning about Combat Rites and then learning about Martial Maneuvers in quick succession.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Baron Opal]

Actually, rogues fit rather nicely. I have two in my game and they can hold their own.

 

[Nifft]

Actually, rogues fit rather nicely. I have two in my game and they can hold their own.

Their Sneak Attack seems about double what an Akashic or Unfettered would get, so I guess I figured they'd be really strong.

I'm very curious about your experience with them in combat!

Thanks, -- N

 

[Set]

My personal faves have been Verrik Wood Witch, Loresong Faen Runethane, Mojh Magister and Sibbecai Warman. Of them, only the Sibbecai took a racial level, and just one, the rest went straight class levels.

I played a Verrik Akashic in the tournament game at GenCon and it was quite possibly the worst designed character I've ever played. There was one situation that called for a skill check in the entire session, and the Magister actually rolled better! The Magister also managed to deal out a hundred plus points of damage to the undead foes, while the Akashic's big contribution was a single point of damage through the foes DR, and managing to take enough damage to use up the Mage Blades entire repertoire of daily spells trying to keep her alive. In a game based around combat and that de-values the use of skills, the Akashic is a fish out of water, and in this game served as a leech that held the rest of the party back and tied up their resources keeping her gimp butt alive.

If it had been a social interaction base game, she might have proven useful, but it wasn't, it was a tournament game in which time was a factor, and she didn't only not contribute to getting us through the encounters quicker, she actually hindered party efficiency, being about as useful as a 5th level Commoner in an otherwise competent adventuring party.

For a new player, I'd suggest a class that's actually fun right out of the box, like a Warmain or a Witch, not something you have to actually *make* fun through hard work and creative roleplaying, like the Akashic (or a Bard in 2e AD&D).

 

[Stalker0]

Their Sneak Attack seems about double what an Akashic or Unfettered would get, so I guess I figured they'd be really strong.

I'm very curious about your experience with them in combat!

Thanks, -- N

The unfettered has a full BAB, and a really high AC. He doesn't do the damage a rogue can, but he stays in the fight a lot longer.

The akashic can weild full martial weapons and heavy armor. He has the same skills as a rogue but with better AC and better weapon selection. He can also buff himself with memory abilities to make him even stronger in combat.

In general, the rogue fits in just fine.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Their Sneak Attack seems about double what an Akashic or Unfettered would get, so I guess I figured they'd be really strong.

I'm very curious about your experience with them in combat!

Thanks, -- N

Unfettered have a full base attack bonus, which means they can hold the ground with Fighters in this area. Both Akashic and Unfettered don't need their sneak attack to be effective in combat, which I think is nice. Akashics and Unfettered won't dread Undead as more as any other melee fighter, think.

 

[BryonD]

The unfettered has a full BAB, and a really high AC. He doesn't do the damage a rogue can, but he stays in the fight a lot longer.

In general, the rogue fits in just fine.

I don't play AE, but there is an Unfettered in my D&D game and he fits right in. I would expect the reverse to apply just as well. There is also a Champion of Death multiclassed Cleric of Anubis that works well.

A Warblade would kick either of their butts....., but I'll not hijack this thread.

 

[Nifft]

Interesting! It sounds like the core D&D classes hit harder, but die easier too. So the AE counterparts have less vulnerability to the "egg with a hammer" min/max syndrome.

Some rules in AE -- particularly the TWF rules -- seemed to favor Rogues. I'm away from book at the moment (lent to someone else in game), but I seem to recall that you can take two feats and get an extra attack at +0/+0 starting around 3rd level (1st if human). Am I wrong? Is it just Ambidexterity (Talent) and regular TWF, or is there another feat you need to take to get rid of the -2/-2?

Thanks, -- N

 

[DarkKestral]

I believe it's Ambidexterity and TWF. However, you only get ONE additional attack, and that's it. There's no ITWF/GTWF/PTWF so that you eventually get 8 attacks per full attack. You max out at 5. And you can also get two Medium-sized weapons at -0/-0 but it requires an additional feat, for a total of 3, out of the 8 you get from 1-20. 9 if human.

Therefore, it's still very feat-intensive for what you get, albeit very useful for quarterstaff/swordstaff users, such as mageblades.