NEW Immortals Handbook - Ascension thread

[WarDragon]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but this is wholly unrelated to my previous post.

UK, I was wondering what the verdict on using AMC to augment SLAs would be. Say, if a deity of thunder had AMCx3, could they maximize their Chain Lightning SLA?

Going by the round-by-round tactics of several creatures in the Beastiary, I would say yes.

 

[Upper_Krust]

UK,

Hiya mate!

Even without min-maxing you can realistically expect to do 100-150+ points of damage per hit as a melee character. With a full attack (assuming 5 attacks from a speed weapon, Quickness, haste, ect): that's 500-750 damage per round. My concern isn't orichalcum weapons, as they are received for free in the tournament (a bad idea), but things like Divine Immensity, Uncanny Power Attack, Superior Power Attack, Uncanny Weapon Focus/Specialization ect. A greater god with a melee focus (say 90 HD), has a minimum Str of 50 (assume Str 18 base) and probally will have a 70+. That's 4 VSCs, +30 to melee damage before Weapon Specialization, enhancement bonuses, PA, ect.

Technically Annihilation weapons are meant to deal 1/5th as much damage as normal weaponry, but this is offset by the +36, so its something of a catch 22.

On a related note: If you don't like the "min-maxing" seen on PotA, place a friggin' restriction on how many freaking Cosmic abilities can be granted by artifacts possessed by non-sidereals. That's the real problem in that PotA: instead of being exotic and remarkable to be in the possession of non-sidereal deities cosmic abilities are taken like candy.

Are you kidding...I love min/maxing. Wish I had time to do more messing about in that area than currently I do.

However, I agree with you on the artifacts question. But when you look at it, ECL 150 has a max +53 weapon bonus. Now technically thats not enough to get a +36 special ability given that I advocate (but don't enforce) a weapon enhancement bonus equal or greater than the total special ability bonus.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Pssthpok matey!

Sorry to post twice in a row, but this is wholly unrelated to my previous post.

No apologies necessary.

UK, I was wondering what the verdict on using AMC to augment SLAs would be. Say, if a deity of thunder had AMCx3, could they maximize their Chain Lightning SLA?

Absolutely, although not Epic SLAs.

 

[mercucio]

Sorry to post twice in a row, but this is wholly unrelated to my previous post.

UK, I was wondering what the verdict on using AMC to augment SLAs would be. Say, if a deity of thunder had AMCx3, could they maximize their Chain Lightning SLA?

UK has stated in the past AMC can be applied to SLAs, and I think there is a section IH that says that.

 

[WarDragon]

However, I agree with you on the artifacts question. But when you look at it, ECL 150 has a max +53 weapon bonus. Now technically thats not enough to get a +36 special ability given that I advocate (but don't enforce) a weapon enhancement bonus equal or greater than the total special ability bonus.

Precisely one person in this game (me) has followed that rule. And it still leaves room for two Cosmics on non-weapon artifacts.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey WarDragon mate!

Precisely one person in this game (me) has followed that rule. And it still leaves room for two Cosmics on non-weapon artifacts.

Yes, I see the prblem. Indirectly you could have 8 Cosmic Abilities which is the same base power as a First One.

I wonder if limiting characters to a single esoteric ability is the answer?

 

[paradox42]

I wonder if limiting characters to a single esoteric ability is the answer?

I was already planning on placing limits on esoteric abilities myself- though admittedly as part of the package deal of being able to purchase "higher" abilities for multiple lesser ones. I.e. if I allow a mortal to get a Divine ability by spending six feats, that's going to count against the number of esoterics the character is allowed to have. My inclination was to limit this to one, but I admittedly haven't investigated it heavily by building characters and seeing what comes out. Honestly, my two powergamer players are better at that sort of thing than I am, so maybe I should hand off the idea to them and see what they can come up with.

As for Artifacts, I would say that any limit on the abilities offered by a particular artifact should be dependent on the Artifact's maker- thus, if the Artifact is made by (or, being blunt, part of) a Deity, then it should be limited to at most one Cosmic ability regardless of how many equivalent Divine abilities the artifact is "worth." This is why artifacts are used, and why they are valuable: they allow the creator to bend or break limits like the one-esoteric-ability rule. Also, I would suggest that any artifact containing what would be, for the possessor, an esoteric ability, should carry drawbacks automatically and not always work as intended. The "power with a price" trope is cliché, but it's cliché for a reason. This, in turn, would prevent deities from loading their artifacts up with Cosmics to get power equivalent to a First One (but on that topic I should really take care to point out that a mere 8 Cosmics does not in fact grant the power of a First One, since the First One template itself grants a Transcendental ability and several other Cosmics the First One doesn't have to spend its own "slots" on), and would actually make them think carefully about loading up with more than one or two Cosmics at all.

 

[mercucio]

Yes, I see the prblem. Indirectly you could have 8 Cosmic Abilities which is the same base power as a First One.

I wonder if limiting characters to a single esoteric ability is the answer?

I'd say limit to 1 esoteric for the entity (mortal, deity, sidereal, ect) and a total of 2-4 esoteric total for artifacts (and without drawbacks). I say more for artifacts because artifacts have traditionally been a means for entities to access more powerful abilities than they could normally hope to possess. That or perhaps esoteric abilities possessed by artifacts should have their cost multiplied by 1.33 or 1.5.

 

[paradox42]

Ooo, a multiplier for esoterics in artifacts is a great idea. I like that one! It explains why mortals find it so difficult (in most cases, enough that the average mortal calls it impossible and doesn't even think about doing it) to create artifacts that can duplicate powers of the gods (i.e. Divine abilities), and also why divine smiths are so valued by their colleagues- they're specialists in item crafting, so only they can afford to create the artifacts with Cosmic powers.

 

[Phantom Llama]

I also like that idea, given how crazy cosmic abilities are.