Newbie here with a question for all........

[Kargin el Tomath]

Hello everyone, my name is Craig. I'm new here but I've been a DM for a very long time (12 years) and I have a question...

CAN YOU HELP ME????

I have been running a game now for 3 months with 9 players playing 18 characters (2 each) all at different levels (ranging from 1st to 19th with 9th being the average) and the game has gotten out of control. I've never let a game get out of control before but now I know it has. Why do i know this. because they were able to defeat Klauth the great red wrym from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting (a CR of 25) and only two characters died. I don't know where things went wrong and at this point i don't even care. i just want to fix the game, because nobody wants to "just start over".

So any advice anyone of you could give me would be highly appreciated.

Thanx.

 

[Omegium]

A party ranging from 1 to 19, with average lvl 9? First of all, they should never be allowed to kill a CR 25 creature, and second: is it really fun for the 1st lvl one to work together with a 19 lvl one? Is there one non metagaming reason the 19 lvl one will cooperate with the 1st lvl one?

And about the fight: play him intelligent, and as evil as possible. He isn't just a creature waiting for some adventurers to loot him, he is an entity. He has a lair, with protections, he scrys, he casts lots and lots of spells, he has followers, etc. Can you post some more information about the fight? we could evaluate it.

Otherwise, take a look at bothered about disposable dragons, they have dragon techniques. Look for a poster called wyrmspider, he has a link in his sig.

 

[S'mon]

Play your dragons sneakier?

I think we'd need more details to help much, but it sounds like you need to contact BADD - Bothered About Disposable Dragons.

Are you applying the wealth-by-level tables from the DMG? Check how your PCs compare - if they have significantly more, they're probably overpowered for their level.

Things I do to keep control - don't let PCs buy any magic item they want. Only let them buy it if it would logically be available in that setting. No spellcaster with Brew Potion = no potions for sale. If it's highly desirable/top-of-range (they want a +5 vorpal sword?) if it's available at all it should cost a hell of a lot, being made just for them, don't be afraid to charge (much) more than DMG market value.

 

[S'mon]

Personally I find that adhering rigidly to the PHB as written (adherence both by players & DM), disallowing all player's-option supplements without special-case DM permission, and keeping all DMG-related stuff as my own prerogative, keeps the game running smoothly as a well-oiled machine.

 

[Kargin el Tomath]

Well the way all of the levels got screwed up was because we had characters die from before (the players had to make new ones that were obviously at a lower level than they had been) and also because of new players joining. The 19th Level Player started with us in the beginning but the first Level Player just began with us this past weekend. I didn't do an average with him because he had never played before.)

Essentially though thats how the levels got screwed up.

As for why there are so many characters, I took over the game from someone else (one of the guys who now plays) and he had let them all play more than one character. He also gave them idiotic magical items. Like everyone got a ring of three wishes to start and everyones weapons were automatically Masterwork items.

Now then the fight scene.

I had planned this Dungeon to simply kill the party. I don't want to kill them but I can't find any other resolution. The dungeon was great. They were kept in suspense the entire way through it. I even used some of the suggestions from the 1000 ways to freak out your players thread. Then when they got to Klauth they all beat his initiative (I rolled a damn one! Can you believe it.?! A one!) And the 19th Level Sorcerer had stored several Everad's black tenticals spells in his staff. He maximized every one and also used the feat quicken spell. This beat the monkey crap out of Klauth. Once it came around to Klauth's turn I tried to play him appropriatly by having him use spells before he used his breath weapon. The ranger in the party ended up having his entire head blown off but everyone else made their saves (It was Wail of the Banshee). The next thing I know the sorcerer is back at it again and eventually Klauth died. In all seriousness, the fight lasted maybe 1 hour between all of the players.

I don't know what else to throw at them. I don't want to use a Terrerasque yet. i'm saving that one for a special occasion, but i need something fast. We play again tonight (Saturday)!

 

[KnowTheToe]

Examine the weaknesses of highest level characters and pick one off at a time. Get rid of the lvl 19 guy and quick.

Too many powerful weapons, create NPCs with the Sunder feats and start breaking them. Have the NPCs weapon have a temporary magical bestowment from a magic user on his side, that way the PCs don't get to pick up a new magical weapon. A magical Maul works well for this because even if you use a permanent magical weapon, most players won't/don't use a maul.

An anti magic shell should make a powerful magic user a little more suseptable.

Most importantly you have to be subtle. PCs will get angry if they think you are trying to kill off their characters.

 

[Angelsboi]

Heres an idea (let me know if it works). I was wanting to use this at some point ...


There are kids being kidnapped in a town somewhere and all the towns people know that in the local woods, there is a druids ring of stones. In this town, all nature magick has been banned and outlawed (Due to the 'druids' kidnapping and sacraficing the kids).

So anyone using Nature magick can be disposed of.

at the Druids circle have them ambushed by 4 Medussa's. One for each aspect of nature (Poison, Pestilance, Famine, and Entropy). If they are ambushed, they MIGHT be all turned to stone.

 

[Wicht]

Have you really been DMing for 12 years?!?

First off, never, ever, let someone bring in a 19th level character from a different campaign into a game of 9th level PCs.

Second of all, the CRs are calculated with the idea you have 4 PCs, not 18. Your party is over four times more powerful than the average party because of that alone.

Third, if you ever take over a game where the former DM allowed the characters to start with rings of wishes then nix the game and start over.

My sage advice? Kill the campaign, have everyone reroll characters and start over at level 1. And remember that the CRs are meant for 4 PCs not for 9.

 

[Lazybones]

I have to agree wtih Wicht. First off, DMing 9 players is quite a difficult undertaking, even with only one character each. Second, the gap in levels is going to create a whole host of problems (I've run games where even having a character two levels above the average led to problems of game domination). Third, the munchkinism of the last DM is going to leave a big bootprint on your game and is nearly impossible to undo.

I'd start a new game, at 1st level. If some of your players refuse to participate, I hate to say it but I think that's probably for the best. IMHO 4-6 players is best for a smoothly running campaign. YMMV, of course, and some DMs really thrive on huge games.

 

[Omegium]

about your fight: Spells in a staff can't be metamagiced, and you can just cast 1 quickened spell in a round.

Second: How exactly is a Tentacle with an grapple bonus of 4(str) + 4 (size) + 19 (lvl) exactly going to win against an dragon with attack bonus of 17 + 40 -8? And how is 1d6 damage going to hurt his 700 hp?

And about the dragon: was he flying, was he improved invisible, shielded, mind blanked and mage armored? Dit he use horrid wiltings, high lvl summon monster spells and the like? Probably not, since he has the most worthless spell selection I've ever seen, but nevertheless: was he prepared and played clever?