NonImprisoned Sidereals Questions

[ShadowofNarcissus]

If a greater deity somehow becomes an Old One is he automatically imprisoned or do the existing immortals try to imprison him?

Do they try to imprison him even if he goes out of his way to avoid upsetting the balance?

Could he make an agreement with the existing immortal pantheons to limit his involvement in their affairs and as a result remain free? ...at least until he oversteps the agreed upon boundaries?

What if the existing immortal pantheons lacked the ability to imprison him and the other sidereals, even first ones tried to face off against him, but failed?

Would a Time Lord or Neutronium Golem get involved?

What if he defeated them, refused to ascend further and went into hiding? Would he be hunted?

I ask because I have a greater deity (former hero-deity) who managed to become an Old One, has no interest in the affairs of other immortals, and spends most of his time adventuring in disguise. Mostly because his adventuring party (his closest friends) are all still hero deities and epic mortals.

He never lets on what he has become and goes on secret quests to further his understanding of what he has become. The only other being aware of what he is would be Charon, The Boatman of The Styx, and Charon, so far, seems to be ok with it as they're allies/family (Charon raised my character).

 

[Chess435]

I don't think it's a guarantee, but the amount of power level a sidereal possesses is most certainly an existential threat to the cosmos, at least as far as the gods see it. Most pantheons want to avoid being in a situation where others are actively supervising and meddling in divine affairs, as in the case with the Forgotten Realms, where Ao rules over the pantheon, capable of even stripping the divine spark away from the gods because he thinks they're being a bunch of petulant babies.

Just because the gods want to put away a sidereal doesn't mean they have the means or coordination to do so.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

I don't think it's a guarantee, but the amount of power level a sidereal possesses is most certainly an existential threat to the cosmos, at least as far as the gods see it. Most pantheons want to avoid being in a situation where others are actively supervising and meddling in divine affairs, as in the case with the Forgotten Realms, where Ao rules over the pantheon, capable of even stripping the divine spark away from the gods because he thinks they're being a bunch of petulant babies.

Just because the gods want to put away a sidereal doesn't mean they have the means or coordination to do so.

Ruling over a pantheon is definitely not his goal. Meddling in immortal affairs would only occur incidentally and never intentionally. He's lawful evil with more emphasis on law (folllowing his own rigid code) than evil and has respect for the status quo, even if he has no interest in having his inherent (from his codified perspective) rights violated by others just because they would fear his power if they knew the truth of what he is. The whole reason he hides his true nature is because he knows how immortals might overreact.

As for his evil nature, its because he assassinated an awakening Abaddon (Hell, Baator). Mostly to preserve The Balance. Partly out of a selfish desire for a secret trump card. Because of this I might see beings such as Ao potentially seeing him as necessary evil, at least for now. Though I wonder how Asmodeus might react if he found out he's been usurped in such a passive aggressive manner.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

I forgot to clarify his alignment. He was originally Lawful Neutral with Evil tendancies (Charon's influence).

 

[Chess435]

Ruling over a pantheon is definitely not his goal. Meddling in immortal affairs would only occur incidentally and never intentionally. He's lawful evil with more emphasis on law (folllowing his own rigid code) than evil and has respect for the status quo, even if he has no interest in having his inherent (from his codified perspective) rights violated by others just because they would fear his power if they knew the truth of what he is. The whole reason he hides his true nature is because he knows how immortals might overreact.

As for his evil nature, its because he assassinated an awakening Abaddon (Hell, Baator). Mostly to preserve The Balance. Partly out of a selfish desire for a secret trump card. Because of this I might see beings such as Ao potentially seeing him as necessary evil, at least for now. Though I wonder how Asmodeus might react if he found out he's been usurped in such a passive aggressive manner.

It all depends on what the gods believe to be true then. The gods constantly plot and plan against one another to some degree, and how much of a target your character is depends primarily on how active he is in the world. If he's going out and adventuring, and making waves in the world, he's going to have potential foes probing for his strengths/weaknesses, and the more attention he has, the sooner the truth about his true nature will be figured out. To them, a sidereal represents an existential threat simply by existing, the mere fact that he could destroy/depose gods, or even ascend further to a Demiurge and reshape the very cosmos to his whim striking fear into those that would call themselves "omnipotent". In my opinion, if he keeps doing this it's simply a matter of time before his sidereal status is figured out, and depending on the disposition of who does, could result in anything from some terrified new worshippers to outright warfare if the secret gets out to the rest of the pantheon. You certainly may be able to come to a diplomatic arrangement with the other deities, especially considering that they likely don't want to take a direct fight with someone of his power level. But he should most certainly expect the gods and their servants to plot and plan to depose you or simply try and steal his power for their own.

In conclusion, I don't think sidereals are automatically imprisoned, but their level of power combined with the scheming nautre of your typical pantheon typically result in arrangements that are unstable at best. You might have peace for a few centuries or millennia, but eventually the shoe will drop and you'll either have to deal with the aggressors, try and ascend beyond their grasp before they become aware, or deal with potentially being slain/imprisoned by the gods or an uppity party of epic mortals with some fancy godslaying artifact that they "found".

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

So...basically, he'll have to contain his adventures to the scope and ability of a standard hero-deity/demi-deity and keep making miraculous last minute escapes. Basically making himself seem less like a threat and more like a greased up pest (kinda Vash, The Stampede'ing things). ...and as long as Charon keeps covering for him he should be good for thousands of years.

Of course, if Charon turns on him (distantly possible given that Charon is a backstabbing yugoloth...even if my character is his secret trump card) it could prove problematic. Then immortal assassins might start gunning for my character. ...and eventually one could get lucky.

If you had a character in this situation, how would you avoid getting assassinated or imprisoned? Would you take an offensive approach, or just go back into hiding?

 

[Chess435]

So...basically, he'll have to contain his adventures to the scope and ability of a standard hero-deity/demi-deity and keep making miraculous last minute escapes. Basically making himself seem less like a threat and more like a greased up pest. ...and as long as Charon keeps covering for him he should be good for thousands of years.

Of course, if Charon turns on him (distantly possible given that Charon is a backstabbing yugoloth...even if my character is his secret trump card) it could prove problematic. Then immortal assassins might start gunning for my character. ...and eventually one could get lucky.

If you had a character in this situation, how would you avoid getting assassinated or imprisoned? Would you take an offensive approach, or just go back into hiding?

Depends on a few things, primarily how good of a hiding spot I had available, my knowledge of potential opposition, and the strengths of the character in question. An old one should be able to duke it out with several lesser gods, but you'll fall if they can all gang up on you at once.

There are many places even the gods fear to tread, such as the Far Realm, and if I were confident in my ability to lay low for a few millennia without being twisted and destroyed by the place, it would be excellent for hiding until your knowledge was lost to the ages. (Keep in mind you're basically "imprisoning" yourself here, the only difference is you get to return on your own terms.) Depending on the nature of your setting, you might be able to go off and start your own civilizations on another world, forging effectively your own mini-setting under your watchful eye.

Last but not least, you could always go for the ascension rush. Make deals with other deities to buy time, offer concessions of things to other deities for diplomatic favor (Other deities might feed you intel or even defend you if you're giving them artifacts you don't need), and go fully into the most challenging adventures the setting has to offer, forging new paths and pushing yourself to your limits. If you can avoid biting off more than you can chew and the pantheon doesn't catch on in time, you could very well reach the higher sidereal tiers before the pantheon can move to stop you, putting the equation much more in your favor if you can manifest a Transcendental Ability or two. Definitely very high risk very high reward, but your prize is basically a clean shot at proper omnipotence!

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

Depends on a few things, primarily how good of a hiding spot I had available, my knowledge of potential opposition, and the strengths of the character in question. An old one should be able to duke it out with several lesser gods, but you'll fall if they can all gang up on you at once.

There are many places even the gods fear to tread, such as the Far Realm, and if I were confident in my ability to lay low for a few millennia without being twisted and destroyed by the place, it would be excellent for hiding until your knowledge was lost to the ages. (Keep in mind you're basically "imprisoning" yourself here, the only difference is you get to return on your own terms.) Depending on the nature of your setting, you might be able to go off and start your own civilizations on another world, forging effectively your own mini-setting under your watchful eye.

Last but not least, you could always go for the ascension rush. Make deals with other deities to buy time, offer concessions of things to other deities for diplomatic favor (Other deities might feed you intel or even defend you if you're giving them artifacts you don't need), and go fully into the most challenging adventures the setting has to offer, forging new paths and pushing yourself to your limits. If you can avoid biting off more than you can chew and the pantheon doesn't catch on in time, you could very well reach the higher sidereal tiers before the pantheon can move to stop you, putting the equation much more in your favor if you can manifest a Transcendental Ability or two. Definitely very high risk very high reward, but your prize is basically a clean shot at proper omnipotence!

Hiding in Far Realm would be like a trip to grandma's for him. He has double madness portfolios (amongst others) and an ability (taken multiple times) that nullifies his portfolio weaknesses. He isn't actually crazy, he just uses insanity as a tactical nuke against strategists. Kinda like how Cthulhu might not actually be crazy, just too alien for tiny mortal brains to handle.

 

[Chess435]

Hiding in Far Realm would be like a trip to grandma's for him. He has double madness portfolios (amongst others) and an ability (taken multiple times) that nullifies his portfolio weaknesses. He isn't actually crazy, he just uses insanity as a tactical nuke against strategists. Kinda like how Cthulhu might not actually be crazy, just too alien for tiny mortal brains to handle.

Sounds like you have a good backup plan if things go south for your character then! Few few things can survive for long in the Far Realm and fewer still are (in)sane enough to venture there to pick a fight with an overdeity.

 

[ShadowofNarcissus]

Sounds like you have a good backup plan if things go south for your character then! Few few things can survive for long in the Far Realm and fewer still are (in)sane enough to venture there to pick a fight with an overdeity.

Far Realm has its own threats though. Alien entities that might not take kindly to his intrusion. ...or that might just see him as a big snack.