D&D 4E Not going to 4e

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Right know I just think 4E is to 3E what 2E was to 1E. Maybe worse.

2E was a reprinting of 1E and its accesories that should have never been called "2nd Edition."

What did they add in the core books? Common responses:

Non-weapon Proficiencies? Nope, Dungeoneers and Wilderness Survival Guides
THACO? Nope, got that concept from the back of the 1E DMG.
Specialist Wizards? Nope, 1E had the illusionist and other specific class Magic-users in Dragon Magazine.
Specialty Priests? Nope, World of Greyhawk Campaign Setting had details for being a cleric of some of the gods.

What did they change to constitute calling it a NEW edition? Nothing I could think of, and the main reason I didn't buy it upon its release.

3E changed alot more than it kept. It made the game more robust.

4E looks like it will do the same.

"Originally Posted by JRRNeiklot:
This I think is the entire problem. 4e seems to be D&D made by people who don't like D&D. And made for people who don't like D&D."

I like D&D. I like the sounds of 4E. Silly me, how stupid am I?

 

[ShinHakkaider]

That's not even close to the point I was trying to make. ;P In 1976, there was nothing that was at all like Star Wars. Since then there's been Star Blazers, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica (old and new), eight or so incarnations of Wing Commander, Babylon 5, The 5th Element, etc., etc., etc.

Star Wars isn't unique anymore because it's spawned a whole genre. Ditto D&D.

-The Gneech

Actually Star Blazers aka Space Cruiser Yamato premiered in 1974. It only appeared here in the US after Star Wars, but to say that it was influenced by Star Wars isnt actually accurate.

 

[Greg K]

I really like the idea that D&D is going high(er) tech. It's all the other 4E crap that I don't like.

Although there are a couple of revealed ideas that do interest me, the above pretty much sums up my overall position. Thankfully, it is also the opinion of the people with whom I game. Still, I may check out the srd or books just to see if there are any ideas worth stealing.

 

[The_Gneech]

Actually Star Blazers aka Space Cruiser Yamato premiered in 1974. It only appeared here in the US after Star Wars, but to say that it was influenced by Star Wars isnt actually accurate.

Heh, I didn't know that. I first encountered Star Blazers in 1979 and assumed it was pretty much contemporary. Learn something new every day!

The point I was making still stands.

-The Gneech

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The point I was making still stands.

No Doubt.

Sorry for the threadjack, the anime geek in me just felt the need to make an appearance.

 

[Greg K]

I'm not going to knock 2e. It kept me playing AD&D longer than I would have (although I eventually left for other games). Plus, I liked several of the 2e settings and still prefer several of the splatbooks to their 3.x counterparts. Still, imo, the core mechanics of 3.x are much stronger based upon the core resolution mechanic, more uniformity, and more intuitiveness (high rolls and AC are always better). I also like the 3e skiill system and feats (although I think several combat feats should be maneuvers available to everyone).

 

[Brother MacLaren]

What did they change to constitute calling it a NEW edition? Nothing I could think of, and the main reason I didn't buy it upon its release.

They changed a lot -- they took out things.
In the intial 2E transition, TSR removed half-orcs (for whom the most likely origin was rape), assassins, demons, devils, and MM nudity. See a pattern here?

 

[Grog]

And besides that, it's the small things like 0-9th level spells that makes D&D what it is.

Then 1st edition wasn't D&D, because it didn't have 0 level spells (not in the core rules, anyway).

 

[JRRNeiklot]

They changed a lot -- they took out things.
In the intial 2E transition, TSR removed half-orcs (for whom the most likely origin was rape), assassins, demons, devils, and MM nudity. See a pattern here?

That was all secondary. The real reason for 2e was to remove the name Gygax from the game completely.

 

[Dristram]

Then 1st edition wasn't D&D, because it didn't have 0 level spells (not in the core rules, anyway).

Wow, you sure are nit-picky. I can hardly believe you wasted energy typing that. C'mon, be real man. You know what I was getting at.