Obtain Familiar vs. Summon Familiar

[Aestolia]

First of all, anyone who read this in the other thread, i do apologize for bringing it up again so soon after posting it. I thought I'd try to stick this in on a similar threat, but the way things seem to move here, it may have been overlooked

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I've been looking through for a topic for a question I have on familiars... I've asked The sage at WotC, like they ever answer real questions...

Anyhow, given what's mentioned in this thread I thought this would be a good place to ask it. First let me lay down some citations:

PHB.P.54 - "As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power."
PHB.P.52 - "Levels of different classes that are entitled to familiars (such as sorcerer and wizard) stack for the purpose of determining any familiar abilities that depend on the master's level."
Pretty much any caster Prestige class - "...gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level... ...You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained."

Based on these the familiar of a level 10 Wizard / 5 (insert caster prestige class) should only have abilities of a 10th level wizard. yes?
Now the twist:

Complete Arcane.P.81
Obtain Familiar
Prerequisites: Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, arcane caster level 3rd

Benefit: You can obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard. As with a sorcerer or wizard, obtaining a familiar takes 24 hours and uses up magic materials worth 100gp.
For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster class level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack.

Similarily in the Tome of Magic, the Shadow Familiar feat mentions "Your levels in all classes that allow you to cast mysteries or arcane spells stack."

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Note that these descriptions don't refer to caster levels, but class levels. A bard who takes a prestiege class that advance 1 caster level / 2 level, would still use her character level to determine her familiars ablilities (provided they were just bard and prestige class).

So here's the big question.. Do wizards and sorcerers get a crap version of summon familiar, with under powered familiars? or should Summon familiar be worded as Obtain familiar, "your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack."?

I ask also because (yes this actually came up in one of my campains, goddess save me) the Sorcerer/Bard was wondering why their levels didn't stack for familiar abilities...

A 5 Sorcerer / 5 Bard with Summon Familiar, would have familiar abilities of level 5
A 10 Bard with Obtain Familiar, would have familiar abilities of 10

Does Summon Familiar need an errata? or is it inherently inferior to Obtain familiar.
Why it that the classes can start with a familiar (and a class who's ONLY class ability IS the familiar) would have weaker familiars, or have to spend a feat just to have a comprable one?

 

[3d6]

Summon familiar is just worse than Obtain Familiar.

They're both more a liability than a boon anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Next time he's planning on creating a multiclassed arcane caster, look for an alternate class feature that swaps out the familiar for something cool, and then tell him to take the Obtain Familiar feat at 3rd level. He gets his familiar with all arcane levels stacking, plus something cool!

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster class level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack.

(Most) Prestige classes do not allow you to cast arcane spells. They just increase the spells per day you can cast from any of the exisiting spellcasting classes. In other words, the prestige class would need it's own spell list (like the Assassin). Something that says "+1 level in arcane spellcasting class" would not cut it.

Another way to look at it... If you are a Wizard 10/Archmage 5, what class is allowing you to cast arcane spells? The Archmage PrC doesn't do anything for you if you don't have an arcane spellcasting class to begin with.

 

[Aestolia]

Another way to look at it... If you are a Wizard 10/Archmage 5, what class is allowing you to cast arcane spells? The Archmage PrC doesn't do anything for you if you don't have an arcane spellcasting class to begin with.

Yes, I didn't expressly say that the prestige class was an '+arcane caster level' class, I implied it.

Looking at it that way does give it an interesting perspective, i will admit. I just find it odd, that in terms of logic: 'I'm becoming more powerful, yet my familiar gets nothing.'

I know a lot of people poo-poo familiars, and admitedly I'd only say that they're ...okay... as far as class features go. Unless you start putting more feats/spell into them (blink dog is a wonderfully useful imp familiar).

I'm just somewhat a traditional witch type girl.... familiar and all, so i feel they should get more love.

That and it also goes back to the sorcerer, they just seem so, unloved, and the one class feature they get asides casting.

I dunno, i'm just rambling now, thanks for the input. I may just House-Rule it to Caster Level, for the both.

 

[Nifft]

Next time he's planning on creating a multiclassed arcane caster, look for an alternate class feature that swaps out the familiar for something cool, and then tell him to take the Obtain Familiar feat at 3rd level. He gets his familiar with all arcane levels stacking, plus something cool!

This would be my advice, too.

Cheers, -- N