One Man's Trash is Another Man's Treasure --on 3pp product "glut" 4e / 3e

[Greg K]

That was true for WotC books, but many of the 3pp really didn't get a lot of good discussion. There was a lot of it out there and people quickly had their favorites.

I don't know. I heard more than enough about Fast Forward on message boards to stay away.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So, why didn't you do your research first?

When the glut started, there weren't that many reviews, and they always seemed to be 4 stars. To this day I don't trust RPG product reviews.

Although some egregious offenders (like Quint Fighter) got obvious bad reviews even then.

 

[frankthedm]

The glut was a problem because bad d20 books cost FLGS money.

 

[Greg K]

When the glut started, there weren't that many reviews, and they always seemed to be 4 stars. To this day I don't trust RPG product reviews..

Yeah, a lot of WOTC products did get 4 stars even though they deserved less in my opinion. It even continued throughout 3.5. and into 4e

When it comes to reviews, I look at the products myself and then learn which reviewers match my tastes and which don't. Still, I know what you mean. I remember getting burned by someone respected in the DC Heroes online community writing a glowing review of WEG's DC Universe. Later, he admitted to doing it in hope of getting a writing gig.

 

[Derulbaskul]

(snip) I remember getting burned by someone respected in the DC Heroes online community writing a glowing review of WEG's DC Universe. Later, he admitted to doing it in hope of getting a writing gig.

I don't follow superhero games but in bog-standard D&D there was one name I followed for a while who also wrote A LOT of reviews, and a lot of very positive reviews at that for some very ordinary products. The subsequent writing gigs with those same companies didn't look too good.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Junk is bad for the market. Because it stinks, no one buys it. Because no one buys it, it sits on the shelf.

If it's on the shelf, somebody bought it.

In fact two somebody's bought it-- first the distributor bought it from the publisher, and then the retailer bought it from the distributor.

Basically, people are describing a free market economy in which products compete for shelf space, customers sort out what kinds of products they want, and the retailers and distributors, over time, respond to market demand.

That's how it works in theory.

Instead, the products did not have to compete, neither on the distributor level, nor on the retailer level, and those retailers who could not be bothered to inform themselves about the products they were stocking were left holding the bag, because their customers were more discerning than they were.

I don't have much good to say about retailers who helped shovel crap onto the customers for years.

The customers got wise.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Yeah, I'll DEFINITELY support Wulf Ratbane's statement above.


In fact, I sorta think that FLGS has two main purposes overall that allow them to compete with online (read:cheaper) sources:

1. A place you can game and meet up with gamers.

2. (the relevant one) Being more knowledgable than the average gamer about products.


The corollaries to 2 are: These stores should be the ones deciding on whether they want to stock something...and should avoid crap. Also, the store staff should be able to tell customers about the books.

Unfortunately, the reality seemed to be (at least in the one store that used to be near me) that the store ordered fairly blindly, and then the shelves filled with the crappy books while the good ones kept selling. Staff encouraged the purchase of the crappy books rather than dissuading customers. End result of that was, for me, abandoining that FLGS for online.

So, yeah, lots of choices and three levels of discrimination between quality and crap (distributor, retailer, customer) would be the ideal way for things to go. Problem is, it didn't seem to work out that way in this particular case...but I don't blame that on there being crap available, I blame that on my FLGS and the distributor.

 

[carmachu]

I'd rather have a little good stuff than a lot of bad stuff.

Digging through crap takes time, and as the typical DnD player is now older, time tends to be limited (not because we're literally getting older, but because we tend to have full-time jobs, and some people are married with children).

Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet, where you can persue through reviews and ask advice on many products, then shop in your fuzzy slippers as well at variety of online venues.

I mean, have you looked through WotC's 3.5 libarary of books? There's a load of stinkers there as well as good stuff. But that takes time too.

 

[Bumbles]

Unfortunately, the reality seemed to be (at least in the one store that used to be near me) that the store ordered fairly blindly, and then the shelves filled with the crappy books while the good ones kept selling. Staff encouraged the purchase of the crappy books rather than dissuading customers. End result of that was, for me, abandoining that FLGS for online.

Well, having spoken with the operator of one of the FLGS, she's had the problem for years of having stuff on the shelves that won't sell, so she knows that buying stuff the customers don't want is an issue. The problem is twofold. First, the distributors don't care about her, they'll try to sell her anything and everything. So she's not getting support on that end. Then there's the problem of selling more than just RPGs. Being informed about Comics, Anime, toys, boardgames, RPGs, CCGs, T-shirts, is really really hard.

She really really wants to sell what her customers want. The problem is knowing can be quite difficult. Your FLGS isn't Wal-Mart who can pretty much tell their distributors to do the stocking themselves.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Being informed about Comics, Anime, toys, boardgames, RPGs, CCGs, T-shirts, is really really hard.

Yes, running a business is really hard.

For crying out loud. I mean... seriously. Good. Grief.



And that's the problem with brick-and-mortar game stores. Most of them are run by gamers, not by businessmen. Some are run as businesses, and have no interest in games.

Precious few are run by businessmen with a real passion for games.