D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Micah Sweet]

they got that strong by hitting the gym, there done, explained, fantasy humans are just built different and can just reach higher highs than earth athletes.

Show me in the book. Show me any explanation that came from the game we're all playing.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

But if that's it, it's just a gamist necessary evil, one of those things you just have to accept.

No, it is not. It is actually modelling something. The high level martials actually are capable of fighting things no human could. That is true both in the fiction and the mechanics.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The abstraction of hit point is the super humanness. The share number of dodgers, parries, blocks and straight body blows a Tier 4 martial has is far past what the humaniod muscles and nervous system can handle. Heck it stops making sense in Tier 2.

The bonkers part is your level 15 wizard has 60+ HP and can get in a fencing duel with a noble with no real combat training.HP gain of nonmartials should end or slow to old school 1hp/lvl after level 10.

Thats the thing.

Some things in D&D are not explained to spare the feeling and sensibility of the fans and not disrupt the "sense" in the game.

WOTC doesn't outright say that Pact Magic is a different type of magic. But the fact that it is called "Pact Magic" and not "Spellcasting" and uses different rules means Sorcerer magic is not the same as Warlock magic.

D&D polearms are D&D versatile weapons on a stick. But they use different rules due to being on a stick.

Then what you have is poor writing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, it is not. It is actually modelling something. The high level martials actually are capable of fighting things no human could. That is true both in the fiction and the mechanics.

Except that's not the story the rules give you. No where does it say that non-magical folks are actually not non-magical.

 

[Mephista]

The Feywild is basically made of magic. It's an obvious exception.

You say "obvious exception" but.... I'm not the one who said they don't exist in D&D. Hells, they're literally in Wild Beyond the Witchlight. You can't say something doesn't exist and then shrug it off when you're proven wrong. And that wasn't even the ONLY way for that kind of thing to show up in D&D. It was simply the first and most obvious.

Legendary figures have an immediate effect on their "Lairs" - this can include people, not just liches and dragons and whatever. If you need a "reason" then they're a wild magic sorcerer who, by definition, doesn't have full control over their magic. Another possibility is that the people in question live in those verges, or whatever the supernatural landscapes detailed in Tashas are called. I mean, its not like we really have an explanation for how Lairs come to be, but we just know that they do.
Artificers aren't barred from using emotions as catalysts in their Imbuements or crafting. Or a bard-tailor, if you're inclined that way*. Farmers can have access to druidic magic, or just the favor of the elemental spirits who power druidic magic, and giant plants are just a minor blessing of minor land gods.

There's sooooo many "exceptions" that, frankly, its only DM fiat that NPCs can't improve or level that prevents all kinds of things from happening. Which is valid, but far from universal, so you can't even say this stuff is an exception. Just equally valid takes on the fantasy genre.

* Interestingly, I see a lot of tailors who rely on a variation of bardcraft to do their magics in stories than something more akin to wizardry, alchemists or mystic blacksmiths. Just a curious observation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You say "obvious exception" but.... I'm not the one who said they don't exist in D&D. Hells, they're literally in Wild Beyond the Witchlight. You can't say something doesn't exist and then shrug it off when you're proven wrong. And that wasn't even the ONLY way for that kind of thing to show up in D&D. It was simply the first and most obvious.

Legendary figures have an immediate effect on their "Lairs" - this can include people, not just liches and dragons and whatever. If you need a "reason" then they're a wild magic sorcerer who, by definition, doesn't have full control over their magic. Another possibility is that the people in question live in those verges, or whatever the supernatural landscapes detailed in Tashas are called. I mean, its not like we really have an explanation for how Lairs come to be, but we just know that they do.
Artificers aren't barred from using emotions as catalysts in their Imbuements or crafting. Or a bard-tailor, if you're inclined that way*. Farmers can have access to druidic magic, or just the favor of the elemental spirits who power druidic magic, and giant plants are just a minor blessing of minor land gods.

There's sooooo many "exceptions" that, frankly, its only DM fiat that NPCs can't improve or level that prevents all kinds of things from happening. Which is valid, but far from universal, so you can't even say this stuff is an exception. Just equally valid takes on the fantasy genre.

* Interestingly, I see a lot of tailors who rely on a variation of bardcraft to do their magics in stories than something more akin to wizardry, alchemists or mystic blacksmiths. Just a curious observation.

Legendary creatures are all explicitly supernatural. That's not an exception, its the way the game world works.

And the Feywild is not the assumed setting of D&D.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Except that's not the story the rules give you. No where does it say that non-magical folks are actually not non-magical.

But they can beat a dragon. Normal humans can't.

 

[TwoSix]

I won't. I think the high level martial's ability to fight monsters that no human could and survive things no human could are blatantly non-mundane.

An 11th level fighter can kill a T-Rex with, on average, 8 well-placed crossbow shots. On average, they will kill the T-Rex within 12 seconds. The T-Rex will have almost zero chance of killing the 11th level fighter within the same timespan.

The core of 5e combat is the scaling between damage output and NPC hit points. There's no coherent narrative that allows for high Tier 2 and above combat to make sense without having entirely supernatural PC participants.

 

[Mephista]

Legendary creatures are all explicitly supernatural. That's not an exception, its the way the game world works.

And the Feywild is not the assumed setting of D&D.

Mistaken on both counts. The Feywild is part of the Great Wheel default setting. Its not a separate Material Plane, like Faerun versus Eberron, but rather an attached plane, like the Near Ethereal or the Shadow Plane. So, yes, its part of the default setting.

And Legendary creatures aren't explicitly supernatural. The Lair itself is supernatural, but there is no rule or requirement that the Lair has to be tied to a supernatural being. There's nothing stopping the Lair manifesting for an orc warlord based on the Fighter class.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But they can beat a dragon. Normal humans can't.

Who can say. I had a PC fighter shoot a red dragon dead once with a sniper rifle. Still my only confirmed kill on a dragon.