D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Minigiant]

But...that's not what a paladin is.

Paladins of the first 4 editions were attach to a god or religion as first assumption.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Y

Paladins of the first 4 editions were attach to a god or religion as first assumption.

Exactly, that's my point. Changing that changes the class's identity. This would be a good opportunity for one of your 30 new classes.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Paladin means 'champion of the cause' and referred to the peers of Charlemagne.

LG psycho religious zealot is not what a Paladin is.

 

[James Gasik]

But...that's not what a paladin is.

That's correct, a Paladin is one of the 12 Peers of Charlemagne's court, or perhaps a Knight renowned for heroism and chivalry.

 

[Alzrius]

But...that's not what a paladin is.

 

[Shardstone]

But how does an oath give them power at all? Where does the power come from?

Belief bro. Paladin's are supernatural. They have such crazy deep belief in their values that it makes them into bless'd knights.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I wouldn't say that they're "highly skilled professionals." In my book a first level paladin is probably some sort of a squire or a neophyte or equivalent. They don't even take their oath till third level, which is where I'd say they would become something equivalent of a knight.

They are better in a 1v1 fight than any trained guard. They have mastered all weapons and all armors as well as at least one martial art.

Sure, they are not an elite like a Knight is, but they are highly skilled professional "soldiers" or "warriors"

 

[Chaosmancer]

Im not sure I'm ready to elevate what is essentially road rage to being born with a special destiny or having an innate supernatural boon.

It isn't "road rage" though.

See, this is the problem. You think of a Barbarian's Rage as just being angry and out-of-control. That isn't what this is. There was a caption I grabbed years ago that fits this, actually two.

A barbarian's Rage at 3rd level is intense enough to catch the air around them on fire, or to bridge the realms of the living and the dead. This isn't "I'm so angry I grab my mug and smash it over his head" this is "I'm so angry that despite being 90 lbs soaking wet it took six grown men to hold me down, after I threw the first three off of me and sent two of them to the hospital."

You don't see a barbarian raging and think "he's angry" you think "he's a monster pretending to be human."

 

[Chaosmancer]

And that 3rd level subclass thing comes up again. Paladins get their powers from their Oath. Paladins don't take their Oath until level 3. So where did the level 1 and 2 powers come from?

I have always seen a paladin's oath as a contract with themself. So the level three abilities come with the formalization of the contract. The level 1 and 2 abilities come from their conviction and devotion. They have trained and devoted themselves to a cause, and while they have not gotten to the place where they can formalize that Oath without a single doubt to their purpose, they are still devoted to that path.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Great! Have at it! If things don't work out, Mr. Mayor, give me a call.

If a fighter is just a normal dude with a little bit of training, who is only special because he has the correct magical gear... why wouldn't this work? Sure, we know mechanically level is a thing, but why aren't the city guards level 15 fighters then? After all, a 15th level fighter, as you have said, isn't special. They are just a dude.

And the limits of what needs to be spelled out include the beyond mundane abilities of fighters, if they in fact have them.

They do have them. And I don't think it really needs to be spelled out to justify them having more. Especially since we've already given 1001 reasons that could justify it.

Where does the book say that barbarians powers are a result of their special birth?

Why does the book need to tell me that a man who can summon fire by screaming isn't a normal person? Am I incapable of figuring that out without them stopping and saying "oh yes, by the way, that's not normal."