D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Chaosmancer]

Makes more sense to me that way. Don't know why they changed it.

Because you don't need to be blessed by the goddess of vengeance to swear on the blood of your slain family that you will avenge them, and be driven by that goal and given powers for it. You don't need to have sworn yourself to the god of kingship to swear an oath to your country that you will defend it against all foes, and gain special powers from that conviction. Because you don't need to be recognized by the god of the second chances to swear to yourself that you will atone for the thousands that you killed, and find a power in peace that you never could find at the bloody end of a sword.

Because making it all about the gods LIMITS what a paladin could be, and this is a far far better way of doing it.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This video might be another good example of the Barbarian Rage


Thematically, this show is using this moment for despair, but that level of just... not stopping, to the point of insanity. That is the type of thing I think of for Rage.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's correct, a Paladin is one of the 12 Peers of Charlemagne's court, or perhaps a Knight renowned for heroism and chivalry.

The idea of what a paladin is in D&D, wiseacre, was established for some forty years prior to 5e. Even 4e didn't mess with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Belief bro. Paladin's are supernatural. They have such crazy deep belief in their values that it makes them into bless'd knights.

So why don't other people get super powers from their crazy beliefs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

It isn't "road rage" though.

See, this is the problem. You think of a Barbarian's Rage as just being angry and out-of-control. That isn't what this is. There was a caption I grabbed years ago that fits this, actually two.

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A barbarian's Rage at 3rd level is intense enough to catch the air around them on fire, or to bridge the realms of the living and the dead. This isn't "I'm so angry I grab my mug and smash it over his head" this is "I'm so angry that despite being 90 lbs soaking wet it took six grown men to hold me down, after I threw the first three off of me and sent two of them to the hospital."

You don't see a barbarian raging and think "he's angry" you think "he's a monster pretending to be human."

If you're right, the rules really downplay it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If a fighter is just a normal dude with a little bit of training, who is only special because he has the correct magical gear... why wouldn't this work? Sure, we know mechanically level is a thing, but why aren't the city guards level 15 fighters then? After all, a 15th level fighter, as you have said, isn't special. They are just a dude.



They do have them. And I don't think it really needs to be spelled out to justify them having more. Especially since we've already given 1001 reasons that could justify it.



Why does the book need to tell me that a man who can summon fire by screaming isn't a normal person? Am I incapable of figuring that out without them stopping and saying "oh yes, by the way, that's not normal."

Since when does a barbarian summon fire by screaming? Is that a subbclass?

And I never said the demon-killing guard wouldn't work.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because you don't need to be blessed by the goddess of vengeance to swear on the blood of your slain family that you will avenge them, and be driven by that goal and given powers for it. You don't need to have sworn yourself to the god of kingship to swear an oath to your country that you will defend it against all foes, and gain special powers from that conviction. Because you don't need to be recognized by the god of the second chances to swear to yourself that you will atone for the thousands that you killed, and find a power in peace that you never could find at the bloody end of a sword.

Because making it all about the gods LIMITS what a paladin could be, and this is a far far better way of doing it.

It limits them to what everything prior to 5e said a paladin was in D&D. You want a different class narrative? Play another class.

And while you certainly dedicate yourself to something, body and soul, without a god, if you get superpowers those have to come from somewhere.

 

[Yaarel]

AGAIN!
The drawback of accommodation is inconsistency.
Once you allow for a special case, that special case carves out an inconsistency in the lore or rules.

My solutions to this is... MORE CLASSES!
If I ever hit the lottery, I'm making a fantasy game with 30 base classes in the core book. Thirty!

Instead of 30 classes, 1 class that is easy to customize?

Flavor is so setting dependent. The core flavor can do little more than suggest about three concepts, and makes sure the mechanics make some sense during gameplay.

On the other hand, a setting guidebook can go into both comprehensive and precise detail.

 

[Minigiant]

Instead of 30 classes, 1 class that is easy to customize?

Flavor is so setting dependent. The core flavor can do little more than suggest about three concepts, and makes sure the mechanics make some sense during gameplay.

On the other hand, a setting guidebook can go into both comprehensive and precise detail.

I swear I explain why this pipedram doesn't work but it keeps coming back. It's allure is like the crazy person with runaway model looks of a social circle.

You'll never be able to get all the ideas a viable customer base wants to be balanced in a class based game with only 1 class. Tryying to balance Wildshape, Rage, Spellcasting, and Weapons Mastery without siloing them into different class is herculean and maddening task that almost always fails if you do not hard stick to a specific setting.

 

[Yaarel]

I wouldn't say that they're "highly skilled professionals." In my book a first level paladin is probably some sort of a squire or a neophyte or equivalent. They don't even take their oath till third level, which is where I'd say they would become something equivalent of a knight.

I see knighthood by tiers.

Levels 1 thru 4: Student = Page
Levels 5 thru 8: Professional = Squire (Esquire)
Levels 9 thru 12: Master = Knight (Sire, Dame, Sir, Madam, Peer)
Levels 13 thru 16: Grandmaster = Noble (Lord, Lady, Great, Highness)