D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Gammadoodler]

For the same reason that it has nothing to do with elf, dwarf, giant, warforged, halfling or any other race. Race has nothing to do with class. Hell, they even took Bladesingers away from elves and let anyone be one now.

And yes, it is because they said so. If they had said in the rules that humans in D&D have the magical ability to fly, they would be bog standard Earth humans in every way except that some time in their past they gained the ability to fly. D&D doesn't give humans any supernatural abilities, though, so they do not have them.

Perfect. Then Earth human limitations have no bearing whatsoever on what the game mechanics for any of the classes should be.

If we give D&D fighters the ability to leap chasms, fly, or slice mountains in half, then human D&D fighters would simply be Earth-similar humans with those abilities.

This is fine with me. I, personally, do not care one way or the other whether we label them as humans, faerunians, or whatever.

All I want is that, in the same way we give "human" casters the ability to do spells despite a complete lack of real-world Earth precedent, we can give other classes physical abilities with no real-world precedent.

Almost like it's a game where the characters are not from, or of the real world.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I've never seen this from anyone. Not once have I ever seen someone come and say that elves shouldn't have low light vision and other supernatural abilities because Earth human. Not once have I ever seen someone say that Goliaths shouldn't have huge and strong be part of that race because Earth human. It just doesn't happen.

Now I HAVE seen people say that the non-humans are just humans with pointy ears and whatnot, because we are incapable of truly playing them as a race that is truly not human. That's because we the players are human so our race's perspectives, morals and attitudes are all that we know when we roleplay, but that's roleplay and not the physical or supernatural limitations of those races.

What has frequently happened is that people will say..

"Nonmagical" classes should not get abilities beyond what is physically possible for Earth humans (unless someone uses the "magic" word).

And this is again, despite many, if not most members of that class being a race other than human.

 

[Maxperson]

Perfect. Then Earth human limitations have no bearing whatsoever on what the game mechanics for any of the classes should be.

Correct. Players should be and lots and lots of players want a purely mundane class.

If we give D&D fighters the ability to leap chasms, fly, or slice mountains in half, then human D&D fighters would simply be Earth-similar humans with those abilities.

Sure. Yep. It would also selfishly rob the players who want a mundane fighting class of the only one they have. If you want a non-mundane fighter, choose cleric, paladin or one of the supernatural fighter subclasses.

All I want is that, in the same way we give "human" casters the ability to do spells despite a complete lack of real-world Earth precedent, we can give other classes physical abilities with no real-world precedent.

As long as the base fighter is left to be mundane, sure. For that class only subclasses should be supernatural. Magic suffuses 10 of the 13 base classes. Folks should be happy with that and leave the miniscule 3 non-magical base classes alone for those who want to play them.

 

[Remathilis]

If fantasy taught me anything, if an Earth human ended up in a D&D world, they'd most likely not only be able to become a Wizard, but would become the mightiest Wizard of all!

I'm not sure about that ..

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yeah, demanding explanations is what gives us Midi-chlorians. Do you want midi-chlorians? Because that's how you get midi-chlorians!

They eventually made the M-count thing work.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The potential to do it exists within the race. That potential does not exist in Earth humans.

Potential doesn't put food on the table, so to speak. It especially doesn't mean much if it is assumed to be true by a segment of the fan base rather than stated to be true by the text.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Still not really

You can't cast the spell in the armor if it gives your proficiency.
Concentration pops and your combat ability drops.

So if so magic ability to turn someone into a warrior is limited.

True, but I think you are kind of missing the point.

Sure, using these spells only makes the wizard a relatively poor copy of a Fighter or a Rogue (Though, a bladesinger or other concept might be able to make good use of it). And a wizard with knock, skill empowerment, mage hand and invisibility really isn't AS good as a rogue, unless they have high stats and the right feats...

But we can build these wizards to do these things.

What Thief Rogue can take the role of a wizard who clears a room with fireball or locks down enemies with web? What Champion Fighter can speak with the dead and use Arcane Eye to spy invisibly on their enemies?

Wizards can use their spells to fill the roles of fighters and rogues. Is it even possible to build a fighter or rogue who is a poor imitation of a wizard WITHOUT giving them wizard spells and spellcasting? After all, the wizard isn't getting the armor proficiencies, extra attacks, expertise, ect ect of the Rogue and Fighter, they are doing it all with THEIR resource. Spells.

 

[Micah Sweet]

If they were Earth humans, they couldn't be wizards or sorcerers.. How do I know this? There are no wizards or sorcerers on Earth.

Assuming you're right, perhaps that has more to do with a lack of magic on Earth and less to do with the intrinsic nature of humans. I can provide several fictional examples.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Separately. And again. Humans are also 1 of 9 races in the PHB.

And why is that relevant?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Because folks peg physical limitations for all races to Earth humans, despite them..

1. Not being on Earth, and
2. Not being Human

But the folks making those judgements are both. That's our only frame of reference.