Ongoing damage: questions

[cptkevin]

Hi, I've some questions about ongoing damages:

1. what happens to a pc who's taking ongoing damage from an effect at the end of a combact? He must roll every round out of combact until dies ors saves?

2. If a player takes multiple ongoing damages (for example he's hit 3 times by a blazing skeleton orb) he must save three times to be free or only one?

3. Yesterday night my party was fighting against a boneshard skeleton. When the BS was at 4 hp, and in the middle of the party, our cleric cast a turn undead. The turn undead power says that it inflicts radiant damages and push the enemy 3'. The BS has a power that makes it explode when reaches 0 hp in a 3' burst. So what's up? The turn undead power kills with radiant damage the skeleton and then the skeleton immediately explodes in the middle of the party OR the power inflicts the damage AND immediately forces movement BEFORE the BS explodes?

Please assist a poor DM.

TY

 

[tmatk]

1. Ongoing damage goes away after the encounter and a short rest.

2. If they are the same type, only one save is necessary. Ongoing damage of the same type doesn't stack. If they are different, save for each.

3. I believe the damage and push happen simultaneously, so I think the skeleton would burst after the push.

 

[eamon]

1. what happens to a pc who's taking ongoing damage from an effect at the end of a combact? He must roll every round out of combact until dies ors saves?

Essentially, yes. The encounter ends when you take a short rest - but that takes five minutes, and you gain no benefits from an interrupted short rest.

2. If a player takes multiple ongoing damages (for example he's hit 3 times by a blazing skeleton orb) he must save three times to be free or only one?

There are two types of saves: Ongoing damage (which has special rules) and everything else. The basic rule is that when multiple effects overlap, they last for the longest duration*. Ongoing damage specifically has a rule stating that if you take multiple different amounts of ongoing damage of the same type you're considered to just take the highest amount (so taking ongoing 5 and ongoing 10 is just taking ongoing 10) - so at the end of the turn you make only 1 save but if you save, you save completely (against that type). Effects which do more than merely ongoing damage of a single type need to use the general rule.

* there's some discussion as to what the longest duration means. One side says it means until the last save is rolled - i.e. roll each effect's save separately, and the other side see's duration "save ends" as just one duration - i.e. multiple identical effects get just one save but that save ends all effects. When effects aren't identical, you make separate saves, regardless.

3. Yesterday night my party was fighting against a boneshard skeleton. When the BS was at 4 hp, and in the middle of the party, our cleric cast a turn undead. The turn undead power says that it inflicts radiant damages and push the enemy 3'. The BS has a power that makes it explode when reaches 0 hp in a 3' burst. So what's up? The turn undead power kills with radiant damage the skeleton and then the skeleton immediately explodes in the middle of the party OR the power inflicts the damage AND immediately forces movement BEFORE the BS explodes?

I'd say the order in which the effects are applied is undefined, and thus best left up to the cleric. If he's aware of the exploding effect, he'd be wise to first push and then deal damage - which is, of course, way cool . However, since powers always list damage first, it's quite possible that the cleric will just read the effects in the order listed, in which case you'll need to make a judgement call. You could rule that the skeleton explodes at a random point along the push; you could rule that the skeleton explodes at a point along the line proportional to the health remaining (i.e. a barely killed skeleton is pushed far before exploding, a skeleton with just 1 hp remaining explodes right away)...

I don't think there's a definite answer possible to this question, but if the cleric knows of the explosion effect, pushing and then damaging is just too cool to forbid (since there's no rule stating which effect has to come first).

 

[MrBeens]

The combat isn't over until all of the characters are out of danger.
If people are still taking ongoing damage or making death saves, continue the initative order until everyone is safe or dead.

 

[Majushi]

I don't think there's a definite answer possible to this question, but if the cleric knows of the explosion effect, pushing and then damaging is just too cool to forbid (since there's no rule stating which effect has to come first).

Actually, I'd argue that the hit: line from Turn Undead would have to be fully resolved before the Skeleton could react to the damage it took.

 

[eamon]

Actually, I'd argue that the hit: line from Turn Undead would have to be fully resolved before the Skeleton could react to the damage it took.

I don't have a problem with that interpretation, I just think an alternative interpretation is just as possible. Powers aren't executed atomically (without interruptions). It's quite common for immediate actions, opportunity actions or free actions to interrupt a power. Some grant you extra AC (like the wizard's shield), others might simply stop required movement (like a fighter stopping a charging monster). Inane things like being pushed into a pit obviously interrupt a power.

So, it's common for effects or "hit:" lines to be interrupted, and it's necessary to interrupt them for many of the interrupts to work as expected.

The skeleton explodes as soon as he's dropped. Does he drop before or after the push? The rules don't say, so if you want to execute the entire hit: clause before "fully resolve the consequences" of getting damage, that's fine. But you could make the same argument for the push - why does it make any more sense to move his miniature (i.e. fully resolve the consequences of the push) before the damage? Let's say you've an immobilized ally, and are pushing the skeleton to help that ally trigger his readied action "I hit him as soon as he's in reach" - obviously that trigger fires before the skeleton is pushed back out of reach. So what do you resolve first - the push or the damage? It's just not defined. You can't evaluate all effects of a "Hit:" clause simultaneously, because sometimes the order matters.

 

[Majushi]

I think my reasoning is based on the Skeleton's immediate explosion being a Reaction.

Had it been an interrupt the skeleton would explode if it "was about to take damage reducing it to 0 hp or fewer."

But since it explodes after "taking damage reducing it to 0 hp or fewer" the rule of completing an action before Reactions take effect comes in.

Interrupts can stop and action temporarily (or even permanently).

Reactions can only come into effect after the completion of the action they're reacting to.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the basis for my reasoning at least...

 

[Rel]

While we're on the subject, I've got a question:

How does ongoing damage interact with Regeneration?

Say a PC is taking 5 Ongoing Damage from Poison or something. But he's also got Regeneration 2. At the start of his next turn does he take 5 damage but then regenerate 2? Or does he just take 3 since that is the difference?

 

[Obryn]

While we're on the subject, I've got a question:

How does ongoing damage interact with Regeneration?

Say a PC is taking 5 Ongoing Damage from Poison or something. But he's also got Regeneration 2. At the start of his next turn does he take 5 damage but then regenerate 2? Or does he just take 3 since that is the difference?

The character whose turn it is gets to pick what order everything happens in. So, he could regenerate first, then take damage, which gives the net total of 3.

I guess if it's important he become bloodied or unconscious, he could choose to take the damage first.

-O

 

[blargney the second]

How does ongoing damage interact with Regeneration?

PHB 268: Ongoing damage first, then regeneration.
-blarg