D&D 5E Optimizing Greenflame Blade

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Operating under the assumption that the recently revealed Greenflame Blade will be available to Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards, as the title of the section GFB is included in is called "Cantrips for Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards." What builds would get the most mileage out of it? Here are some of the synergies that have been noted so far.

• High Elf and Variant Humans get the earliest start at using it without taking a caster class.
• Rogues get Sneak Attack compatibility with attack against primary target, making GFB a viable Attack replacement.
• If used via Spell Sniper or Distant Spell, range increases to allow use with reach weapons.
• It's an Evocation cantrip that deals fire damage, allowing for Evocation Wizards and Fire Draconic Sorcerers to add their Int/Cha to damage at the appropriate levels.
• Paladins can use Divine Smite alongside GFB, as it uses a melee weapon attack* as part of the spell.
• GFB works perfectly alongside spells like Hex, Hunter's Mark, Shillelagh, and the Smites, due to being a melee weapon attack roll.
• GFB is compatible with the Battlemaster's maneuvers that require a melee weapon attack roll.

*Sage Advice defined a melee weapon attack as a melee attack with a weapon and a melee-weapon attack as an attack with a melee weapon. GFB says to make a "melee attack with a weapon," therefore it is a melee weapon attack.

So what other noteworthy synergies does this little cantrip have? What builds are you looking forward to rolling out?

Personally, I'm leaning towards making a Belmont-inspired whip tank out of a Variant Human Battlemaster 3/Swashbuckler 17 with Spell Sniper as my starting feat. Although I have whiteboarded out a Paladin 3-7/Fire Draconic Sorcerer 6/Fiend Tomelock 3 build as an experiment in getting +Cha to damage three times on a single attack. You can get it for 1 minute per rest via Oath of Vengeance Channel Divinity or virtually always-on via Oathbreaker 7. Max this build out by going up to Pally 11 for IDS to add another d8 to the damage output.

 

[mellored]

Eldrich knight 7
Valor bard 14
Sorcerer's quicken.
Stunning strike/quivering palm (though you can't use martial arts or flurry of blows).
Warcaster (maybe? is it 1 target?)

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

It should totally work with Warcaster, as long as there is no secondary target in range. Very useful for Swashbucklers who use GFB as a means of getting off-turn sneak attack damage. I think that I'm going to work that into my Belmont build. This is what I have so far. Just think Captain N-era Simon Belmont...

Variant Human Fighter/Rogue, Background Folk Hero (customized)
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 16
Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Religion, History, Perception, Insight
Human Feat: Spell Sniper (GFB via Sorcerer/Warlock)
1: Fighter 1, Dueling FS
2: Rogue 1, Expertise (Athletics/Acrobatics)
3: Rogue 2
4: Rogue 3, Swashbuckler
5: Fighter 2
6: Fighter 3, Battlemaster (Pushing Attack/Sweeping Attack/Tripping Attack)
7: Rogue 4, Warcaster
8: Rogue 5
9: Rogue 6, Expertise (Perception/Insight)
10: Rogue 7
11: Rogue 8, +2 Dex
12: Rogue 9
13: Rogue 10, +2 Dex
14: Rogue 11
15: Rogue 12, Martial Adept (Distracting Attack/Feinting Attack)
16: Rogue 13
17: Rogue 14
18: Rogue 15
19: Rogue 16, +2 Cha
20: Rogue 17

Weapon: Whip
AC: 19 (Half-plate + Shield)
GFB + Sneak Attack + Superiority Dice: 1d4+9d6+4d8+7, 21-97 (59 avg)

 

[Blue]

It's an action to cast, so it doesn't synergize well with Extra Attack. Depending on the build and situation Extra Attack or Greenblade Blade may be better at various levels, but it really shines more where it's either a single attack with action character, or one where you can cast it as a bonus action like a sorcerer with quicken (and since it is a cantrip they can cast a normal spell with their action).

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

It's an action to cast, so it doesn't synergize well with Extra Attack. Depending on the build and situation Extra Attack or Greenblade Blade may be better at various levels, but it really shines more where it's either a single attack with action character, or one where you can cast it as a bonus action like a sorcerer with quicken (and since it is a cantrip they can cast a normal spell with their action).

Actually, if they quicken it, then the only spell that can be cast as an action is a cantrip. I don't know the exact page, but it's in the PHB under casting spells as bonus action. A quickened GFB is likely to be followed by another GFB. Still useful in a Sorclock build, with either a Fighter or Pally dip for equipment proficiency.

 

[MoocowTG]

Fighter 1/Favoured Soul Sorcerer 6

Haste yourself, have 2 basic greatsword attacks, a haste basic attack, and a quicken GFB when you want. That's four possible greatsword attacks at level 7. From here on go to whatever class you want or keep leveling sorcerer to have more sorcery points

 

[waffle]

It's an action to cast, so it doesn't synergize well with Extra Attack. Depending on the build and situation Extra Attack or Greenblade Blade may be better at various levels, but it really shines more where it's either a single attack with action character, or one where you can cast it as a bonus action like a sorcerer with quicken (and since it is a cantrip they can cast a normal spell with their action).

The real interesting bit is that at 5th level, it makes the initial attack do 1d8 fire damage in addition to the weapon attack and the damage to the secondary target. If you're facing a slashing resistant foe (and I seem to be doing that a lot), half damage plus full fire damage is better than two attacks.

 

[MYV]

It should totally work with Warcaster, as long as there is no secondary target in range. Very useful for Swashbucklers who use GFB as a means of getting off-turn sneak attack damage. I think that I'm going to work that into my Belmont build. This is what I have so far. Just think Captain N-era Simon Belmont...

Variant Human Fighter/Rogue, Background Folk Hero (customized)
Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 16
Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Religion, History, Perception, Insight
Human Feat: Spell Sniper (GFB via Sorcerer/Warlock)
1: Fighter 1, Dueling FS
2: Rogue 1, Expertise (Athletics/Acrobatics)
3: Rogue 2
4: Rogue 3, Swashbuckler
5: Fighter 2
6: Fighter 3, Battlemaster (Pushing Attack/Sweeping Attack/Tripping Attack)
7: Rogue 4, Warcaster
8: Rogue 5
9: Rogue 6, Expertise (Perception/Insight)
10: Rogue 7
11: Rogue 8, +2 Dex
12: Rogue 9
13: Rogue 10, +2 Dex
14: Rogue 11
15: Rogue 12, Martial Adept (Distracting Attack/Feinting Attack)
16: Rogue 13
17: Rogue 14
18: Rogue 15
19: Rogue 16, +2 Cha
20: Rogue 17

Weapon: Whip
AC: 19 (Half-plate + Shield)
GFB + Sneak Attack + Superiority Dice: 1d4+9d6+4d8+7, 21-97 (59 avg)

You can't take spell sniper as 1st feat as it has as prerequisite "the ability to cast at least one spell"

 

[Z. H. Darkstar]

Good catch. Forgot about the prereq. I guess that the Belmont build needs to go back to the drawing board. I could make it work by removing Martial Adept, shifting the remaining feats down without affecting the +2's, and take Magic Initiate(GFB/Boom Blade/Shield) at 1st level. Since it's for AL use, I can use the rebuild rule to change one of the cantrips into a utility one just before hitting 5th level. Then I just retake the lost cantrip via Spell Sniper that same session or the following one.

Boom Blade has turned out to be a cantrip that shares almost all of the same synergies as GFB, except for one. There isn't a Draconic Sorcerer that grants +Cha to thunder damage. However, BB can be used with Twinned Spell, something that GFB cannot use due to being able to target multiple creatures. At 4 SP total, you have a 5-attack horde clearing combo at 6th level via Quickened GFB, Twinned BB, and Action Surge on a F2/S4 character.

 

[Snof]

As already mentioned, it does requires an action to do, so it doesn't work that well with extra attacks. One can ask how much better a Paladin or a Fighter gets with these cantrips, when it means they would only get a single attack. I would say it is not worth it. It does however have some nice synergy with Eldritch Knight, and war magic thou, but it seems less attractive if you becomes a level 11 fighter with 3 attacks. Multiclassing before that maybe?

Because of that, it works best with those with a single attack, like a cleric. With these new cantrips (Booming Blade, and Greenflame Blade), arcane cleric seems to be the best melee cleric, doing the most damage. Remember that potent spellcasting apply to these spells. For rouges, especially arcane tricksers, this seems like a no brainier, and doesn't requires much more thought, then simply taking the cantrip. A nice boost to damage imo, thou it does mean thief and assassins falls even further behind.

With that said, I can see a few tricks for say an arcane domain Cleric can do. Like Shillelagh either thru multiclassing or magic initiate, warcaster for extra deadly Opportunity attacks, polearm master for easy opportunity attacks. They simply need to get into reach and there you go with a deadly OA. Or just mobility and booming blade. Attack a melee enemy, and move away to get some extra damage once they moves towards you. Maybe all of it if one can afford it.

If you for some reasons rolled really greats stats, then another combo would be, Arcane Domain Cleric + warcaster + Polearm Master + Spell Sniper + Booming Blade + Halberd. Now you automatically get an OA when they enter your reach of 10 feet, and you can cast Booming Blade, and they take even MORE damage if they decide to move further, like getting adjacent to you.