(OT) B5: Legend of the Rangers (spoilers)

[Eridanis]

Legend of the Rangers is the Highlander 2 of the B5 saga.

They lost me in the first five minutes when the second-in-command ordered retreat. With Rangers like him, how did our heroes ever win the Shadow War? Someone (perhaps G'Kar?) mentions that the lead guy was more concerned about his crew than about himself. Unfortunately, he was more concerned about his crew than about his MISSION! Remeber the B5 episode where Sheridan orders a White Star crewed by Rangers to be intentionally captured/destroyed so that misinformation could be fed to the Shadows? What if that Ranger had said "oh, no, that's too dangerous, I won't do it"? It completely disgusted me.

All this could have been redeemed if the characters had been likeable, but not one captured my imagination or interest. Even G'Kar was a shaodw of his former self - more like the G'Kar of the first season of B5 than the man who had learned hard-won truths over the years. Maybe he had too much sex with Lyta out amoungst the stars over the past few years.

I rewound the tape after the movie was over just to make sure that JMS had really written it. No wonder SCI-FI has held on to this for so long (it's been done for months) - this was a terrible film. I hope that there is another B5 series- perhaps even a Rangers series - but I will not watch it if this crew of nabobs is on it! They are in direct opposition to the honorable Rangers we have seen before (Sinclair/Valen? MARCUS?), and if I never see these characters again, it will be too soon.

You can probably tell that I was disappointed.

 

[Wolf72]

Ahhhh, he hates Lyta!!!!

Sorry, have a thing for red-headed women .


LightPhoenix

particularly very poweful, telepathic ones!

who says Bester outlived her? (haven't followed any literature since the end of the 5th season).

2265 huh? okay now I'll buy that the ship has made it thru 2 wars. So the ship is completely Minbari, right? maybe with a few human sub-systems put it.

god I miss Lyta, I hope Patricia Tallman see's how big her character was to us geeks ... then again I hope it doesn't scare her!

 

[Umbran]

Umbran, it would be nice is that wasn't said all the time - it's like a bloody mantra. That line in particular upset me, because we've heard it SO many times before.

Actually, I think you'll find that is a bit of a mis-apprehension. G"Kar says it in the beginning of B5. He said it once here. How many more times can you actually peg it being said? Over 100 hours of B5 stuff, is it really used often?

I think you'll find that this line is actually used only marginally more often than, "...get off your encounter-suited butts and do something!" Meaning that the reason you remember it so well may be partly because it is simply a well turned, important phrase, and partly because it was in the show opening credits for a while.

And no matter how often you've heard it, apparently it needed saying anyway. People griping about Turk, and the enemy, and forgetting how infrequently JMS does things at face value.

 

[Villano]

Legend of the Rangers is the Highlander 2 of the B5 saga.

They lost me in the first five minutes when the second-in-command ordered retreat. With Rangers like him, how did our heroes ever win the Shadow War? Someone (perhaps G'Kar?) mentions that the lead guy was more concerned about his crew than about himself. Unfortunately, he was more concerned about his crew than about his MISSION! Remeber the B5 episode where Sheridan orders a White Star crewed by Rangers to be intentionally captured/destroyed so that misinformation could be fed to the Shadows? What if that Ranger had said "oh, no, that's too dangerous, I won't do it"? It completely disgusted me.

I can't tell if this post was meant as a joke or not, so I'm going to treat it under the assumption that you're serious.

So, let's review:

The Rangers were sent to stop the raiders.

Unbeknownst to the Rangers, the raiders turned out to have a few hundred ships.

The Ranger's ship had its engines damaged and had no weapons.

How does one ship with partial speed and no weapons stop an army? Drive by the enemy very slowly and moon them to death?

With no weapons, the only thing they could do is fly at them and try to take down a single ship in a kamikaze attack. Of course, with only partial engines, they wouldn't even be able to get close before being shot down.

Doing anything other then retreating would be just, well, stupid.

 

[Wolf72]

... don't know if they had a Pak Mara (sp), maybe mooning would have been a good idea!

(sorry, had to say it )

 

[Eridanis]

Doing anything other then retreating would be just, well, stupid.

I agree with you, in this case. The Rangers need to report thier findings to their commanders so that more steps can be taken. However, as the script was written, a great deal was made about "we live for the one, we die for the one, we never run from a fight" - and then when the 'heroes' immediately turn tail and run (whether their reasons were right or wrong), we're supposed to identify with them for the next 2 hours without thinking? Even if G'Kar, admittedly a hero in his own right, steps out of the blue and vouches for them? They violated their order's "most sacred" tenet - is that to be forgotten just because we'd have no story if it wasn't? My point is that the script could have taken several tacks to win the audience over to the 'heroes' more securely, but a combination of hurried writing and atrocious acting left me completely cold. (Although not as cold as the players in the Oakland/New England game I was watching during commercials, I imagine.)

Get rid of the captain, who had zero charisma and did nothing to build respect after his rough start with the audience and with his character's superiors, and I'll give it another try. The VR weapons targeting system was a good idea, based in the technology previously demonstarted with the show, but poorly executed. The mission specialist character had a bit of promise, and the Drazi is the type of character who could certainly grow in depth. But this movie was juut as bad as GATHERING, and blew a lot of credibility, I think, with fans like myself that are willing to explore whatever path JMS decides to follow.

 

[Fast Learner]

LOL, I also checked afterwards to see if it was written by JMS. Some of the dialogue, especially Sarah Conner's (oh, maybe not Conner, but it was the same character) was extraordinarily lame, even worse than some of the B5 pilot dialogue. I was quite disappointed.

I liked the 3D-ness of the firing interface, but the lame-ass punches and kicks really ruined it.

A shame, really.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I agree with you, in this case. The Rangers need to report thier findings to their commanders so that more steps can be taken. However, as the script was written, a great deal was made about "we live for the one, we die for the one, we never run from a fight" - and then when the 'heroes' immediately turn tail and run (whether their reasons were right or wrong), we're supposed to identify with them for the next 2 hours without thinking? Even if G'Kar, admittedly a hero in his own right, steps out of the blue and vouches for them? They violated their order's "most sacred" tenet - is that to be forgotten just because we'd have no story if it wasn't? My point is that the script could have taken several tacks to win the audience over to the 'heroes' more securely, but a combination of hurried writing and atrocious acting left me completely cold. (Although not as cold as the players in the Oakland/New England game I was watching during commercials, I imagine.)

Get rid of the captain, who had zero charisma and did nothing to build respect after his rough start with the audience and with his character's superiors, and I'll give it another try. The VR weapons targeting system was a good idea, based in the technology previously demonstarted with the show, but poorly executed. The mission specialist character had a bit of promise, and the Drazi is the type of character who could certainly grow in depth. But this movie was juut as bad as GATHERING, and blew a lot of credibility, I think, with fans like myself that are willing to explore whatever path JMS decides to follow.

Regarding the whole "retreat" thing, as I mentioned above this attitiude reflected the Minbari penchant for tradition and unbending following of the rules. Even the Grey Council guy G'Kar was working for seemed troubled by this unyielding attitude. WIth the Minbari, it seems that everything is all or nothing - in the Earth/Minbari war, there was no middle ground; commit genocide on the human race or surrender to them.

The point is that this has been a steadily developing character/racial trait for the Minbari, and has been proven to be a weakness. I think, based on the writing, directing, and acting of this film, it is something JMS wished to address directly - the idea that commanders in the field could exercise no judgment of their own, and simply had to follow orders, specifically a centuries-old order, given by someone with absolutely no knowledge of a given situation. Such uncompromising thinking has damaged armies throughout history, and JMS would know that. Sheridan asking a crew to sacrifice themselves for a specific mission is different from a crew sacrificing themselves for no real greater gain - in fact, it would lessen the ranks of the Rangers and lose them a ship, and provide no benefit in return - are two very different situations, which JMS seems to have specifically chosen to illustrate points about his setting and characters.

I'll say again that I think the lead actor has screen presence and talent, and is surprisingly good. If you look back on B5, especially when it comes to the early seasons and secondary characters, acting has always been its weak point. The rest of the crew hasn't been given enough screen time to make a determination about their acting abilities, except for maybe Dulann. This is mostly becaus eof G'Kar's presence, but I'm not grousing about him; he's one of my favorite scifi characters, right up there with Londo.

 

[WizarDru]

* 20 years old is old for a ship, particularly a Minbari ship? That just seemed odd to me.

* The ship was, for the most part, pretty cool. However, I have gotten very tired of the "leaving before all systems are installed or ready" device that seems to be a pre-requisite for any scifi series lately. The Star Trek movies set a bad precedent for this, what with the Enterprise being in sad shape for, let's see, the first three movies, and absent for almost the entire 4th.

Actually, I think that needs to be put in context. I don't the act of it being 20 years old is the issue per se: it's that it's survived the last 20 years in particular, namely through the Earth-Minbari conflict and then the Shadow Wars. Personally, I'd consider that a recommendation. Of course, what with all the WhiteStars, it may seem awfully old-school to them.

* The fire control system is weird. Is it meant to be a system that was used on ships at one time, but was dropped for modern ships? If not, why wouldn't the ships of B5 - like the Whitestars - use it? It is an interesting idea.

Good Question, and one I'd like to know the answer to, myself. Given that we've never actually seen a Minbari ship of this class and size before, it's hard to say. We've never seen the gunnery systems on the big capital ships, but the Minbari certainly have a penchant for holographic control systems, so who knows?

One thing a lot of people missed, I think, is that either she has implants of some sort in her eyes, or the system dynamically reads her corneas for information. I'm guessing the physical movements may just confirmations or something. It's obvious the targetting systems are linked elsewhere.

As for having an AI do it....well, B5 doesn't have them, and in fact most races have an almost pathological distrust of them. We've seen several cases of cyborg technology, but even the elder races didn't seem to use things like robotics, but instead use meat-machines, like the Great Machine, for example.

Personally, I thought the show was a hoot. I was glad to be back in the B5 universe, and I like the characters. Like Gary Cole, I liked the lead in B5:LotR, when I wasn't sure if I actually would. Wasn't thrilled with the concept of another Elder race rearing their ugly heads...but I generally trust JMS, so I'm sure there's more there than meets the eye.

 

[Wolf72]

oy Col!

style of ship, I think they may have something similiar in Babylon 5: Wars (or what ever the tactical game is)

elder race? bah! sounded very stoopid to me too