I guess leaving the country being a big deal depends on what part of the country you live in. Here in Texas people drive to Mexico for a weekend all the time. The make an all nighter of it Friday night and come back on Sunday. Same thing goes for up north. People cross the border into Canada for a weekend getaway. Heck you even have places like Niagara Falls that is on both sides of the border. I have never even thought about how far I drive to and from work being far. It is 40 miles each way. Takes me about an hour in traffic. No big deal really. Last month me and my wife drove from Dallas to Houston to see OU play Colorado. Didn't even think twice about it being 250+ miles each way. Drove down on Saturday morning and back on Sunday.
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
[OT] National Pride?
- Thread starter cthuluftaghn
- Start date
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Rav said:
I see your point, but I think that regional variances in American culture are greater than you think they are.
Storminator
First Post
ColonelHardisson said:
There is quite a bit of difference between New Hampshire and Massachusetts, and they share a border. Not to mention you could drive across either one in a couple of hours.
And from here California is about as far, geographically and culturally, as France is.
There are enormous differences in this country. We do share a language, tho, and that tends to wash the variation out.
PS
Hmm... As someone who grew up in Belgium and has been living in the US for the past 11 years, I always found americans to be MORE mobile than europeans, not less.
Sure, europeans travel to other countries quite frequently. Probably not much more than americans visit other states though. And the typical american moves about every 5-7 years or so (and often to a different state), up until recently Europeans very rarely moved out of their home country.
A little anecdote: a few years back, I looked up my family name in the Mormons' big online genealogical database. Sure enough, I found a number of entries, dating back to, oh, early 1800's or so. The next time I went back home I showed those to my dad. His response? "Oh, those are from an entirely different branch of the family. See? They're all centered around this village which is about 50 km (30miles?) from where I grew up." I.e. our branch of the family only moved about 50 km in 200 years!
And yes, I do *sorta* miss the pervasive sense of history here in the states. I grew up in a tiny village in Flanders, knowing that I could go out anywhere into the countryside, and if I dug a deep enough hole in the ground I'd probably find some traces of civilization, dating back at least a couple of centuries.
On the other hand, this also means there's very little unspoiled nature left in some parts of Europe. If you fly over Flanders, you'll see most of the countryside is divided into small (to US standards) irregularly shaped parcels of farmland. Most of which probably follow boundaries, paths etc going back hundreds of years. You may be jealous of our history, we're jealous of your national and state parks!
Sure, europeans travel to other countries quite frequently. Probably not much more than americans visit other states though. And the typical american moves about every 5-7 years or so (and often to a different state), up until recently Europeans very rarely moved out of their home country.
A little anecdote: a few years back, I looked up my family name in the Mormons' big online genealogical database. Sure enough, I found a number of entries, dating back to, oh, early 1800's or so. The next time I went back home I showed those to my dad. His response? "Oh, those are from an entirely different branch of the family. See? They're all centered around this village which is about 50 km (30miles?) from where I grew up." I.e. our branch of the family only moved about 50 km in 200 years!
And yes, I do *sorta* miss the pervasive sense of history here in the states. I grew up in a tiny village in Flanders, knowing that I could go out anywhere into the countryside, and if I dug a deep enough hole in the ground I'd probably find some traces of civilization, dating back at least a couple of centuries.
On the other hand, this also means there's very little unspoiled nature left in some parts of Europe. If you fly over Flanders, you'll see most of the countryside is divided into small (to US standards) irregularly shaped parcels of farmland. Most of which probably follow boundaries, paths etc going back hundreds of years. You may be jealous of our history, we're jealous of your national and state parks!
Ravellion
serves Gnome Master
I am not saying there is none. I am just saying it is nowhere near Europe's cultural diversity. If you disagree, I am sorry, you are just wrong. Your california/France example is abit silly isn't it. If I move 150 miles, to live in France, and you move to California to the other side of your continent, I can't...Storminator said:
- talk about important Dutch historical figures, such as William of Orange, while you could talk about George Washington
- talk about the Dutch national football teams, while you could talk about the NFL
- talk about national politics - different political parties, systems, politicians. You could have a Republican/Democrat debate now couldn't you?
- TV. Except Friends of course. We all watch Friends.
- Music is VASTLY different from country to country in the EU. Belgium's charts hardly overlap with the Dutch charts, and we partly have the same language! Does Eminem sell less records in NY than he does in Philadelphia, because he is from Detroit?
- Food. I am not talking about some regional dishes, I am talking about day to day eating and drinking habits - I am rapidly gaining weight in the UK. Do you think your moving from, say, New England to California would make you gain 1lb. every two weeks?
- Architecture. Dutch architecture is unique. German Architecture is unique. English Architecture is Unique. American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same.
- Products for sale. I can't get my favourite beer in the UK anywhere. Period. The thing is, I am NOT drinking from a microbrewery. I am drinking Belgiums biggest export to the Netherlands. I can't get it in the UK at ALL. Bud pretty much sells all over the US doesn't it. Or Wendy's. Or KFC. Sure as hell I can't find a Febo in the UK.
- German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison.
I could go on for a long, long, time. I still haven't mentioned half of my experiences. And then there is still the legal, not cultural differences, between each country.
Also, my experiences do not have their basis in tourism. I am actually living in the UK now, while having spent some non tourism time in the US as well, but having spent most of my life in the Netherlands.
Rav
Jemal
Adventurer
I find it rather interesting that not ONCE has Canada been mentioned. I mean come on.. basicaly The only 2 countries in the world that yanks can get to without flying or taking a cruise are Mexico and Canada.
Canada is also (IMO) the largest and most diverse country in the world. To demonstrate, I'll use rav's quotes on how there's diversity in Europe, and apply it to Canada.
- talk about important Dutch historical figures, such as William of Orange, while you could talk about George Washington
This applies to politics.. Every Province and Territory in Canada has different political affiliations, etc.
- talk about national politics - different political parties, systems, politicians. You could have a Republican/Democrat debate now couldn't you?
See above.. Canada has aprox a dozen political parties, and some provinces have Provincial parties that don't even exist on a federal level, just as some federal parties don't exist on rural levels in many placse.
- TV. Except Friends of course. We all watch Friends.
- Music is VASTLY different from country to country in the EU. Belgium's charts hardly overlap with the Dutch charts, and we partly have the same language! Does Eminem sell less records in NY than he does in Philadelphia, because he is from Detroit?
TV And Music in canada.. If you count digital/satelite, we can watch basically any channel in the world. there's a few british programs I like to watch. As for Music, most of our 'music' channels count down non-canadian and non-american music in addition to our own.
- Architecture. Dutch architecture is unique. German Architecture is unique. English Architecture is Unique. American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same.
Don't know about any other Canuks, but I can usually tell which city I'm in just by looking around at how the buildings are set-out.
- German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison.
Lotsa different customs in canadian Cities. Just try calling some one from Toronto a... Never mind, I don't wanna piss them off.
I could go on for a long, long, time. I still haven't mentioned half of my experiences. And then there is still the legal, not cultural differences, between each country.
I know what you mean. Every city and province thinks they need their own special rules just to show that they're not the same as everyone else.
Anyways, just thought we needed a token Canadian guy in this thread.
VIVE LE CANUCKS!!
Canada is also (IMO) the largest and most diverse country in the world. To demonstrate, I'll use rav's quotes on how there's diversity in Europe, and apply it to Canada.
- talk about important Dutch historical figures, such as William of Orange, while you could talk about George Washington
This applies to politics.. Every Province and Territory in Canada has different political affiliations, etc.
- talk about national politics - different political parties, systems, politicians. You could have a Republican/Democrat debate now couldn't you?
See above.. Canada has aprox a dozen political parties, and some provinces have Provincial parties that don't even exist on a federal level, just as some federal parties don't exist on rural levels in many placse.
- TV. Except Friends of course. We all watch Friends.
- Music is VASTLY different from country to country in the EU. Belgium's charts hardly overlap with the Dutch charts, and we partly have the same language! Does Eminem sell less records in NY than he does in Philadelphia, because he is from Detroit?
TV And Music in canada.. If you count digital/satelite, we can watch basically any channel in the world. there's a few british programs I like to watch. As for Music, most of our 'music' channels count down non-canadian and non-american music in addition to our own.
- Architecture. Dutch architecture is unique. German Architecture is unique. English Architecture is Unique. American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same.
Don't know about any other Canuks, but I can usually tell which city I'm in just by looking around at how the buildings are set-out.
- German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison.
Lotsa different customs in canadian Cities. Just try calling some one from Toronto a... Never mind, I don't wanna piss them off.
I could go on for a long, long, time. I still haven't mentioned half of my experiences. And then there is still the legal, not cultural differences, between each country.
I know what you mean. Every city and province thinks they need their own special rules just to show that they're not the same as everyone else.
Anyways, just thought we needed a token Canadian guy in this thread.
VIVE LE CANUCKS!!
cthuluftaghn
First Post
Henry said:
Ah! Thank you! You touched the heart of why I started this thread in the first place!
25 years ago, when I was in elementary school, the term "melting pot" was used for America. People came to America from varied cultures and backgrounds and all together we are "Americans". All of our differences blended together to form the "American culture."
Today, I don't think we're a melting pot anymore. We're more like a tossed salad. Sure, we're all thrown into the same bowl. But individually, we're still carrots, mushrooms, lettuce and radishes. That's kind of a strange analogy, but I think it makes sense. Our flavors don't blend together into a distinct taste. If one flavor starts to overpower another in any way, the result is a lawsuit.... or a march... or a protest... or a parade to celebrate the right of a tomato to BE a tomato and be proud of it, darnit.
Celebrim
Legend
Rav: I don't disagree with your basic thesis. There is indeed more variation amongst Europeans than amongst Americans, if primarily because Americans share common language and media for sharing information. Also, I find that Europeans tend to be more 'tribal', although I do think that that is changing with the Euro and the Europass, than Americans are say post WWII. Prior to WWII, and most certainly prior to the Civil War, you could find the same sort of Balkanization between the US states as you find between European countries. Even today, when a person from my home state (Arkansas) talks about someone who was born out of the state, he says that they are a 'foreigner'. Also, American accents are being washed away, and so someone from Chicago has a much easier time being understood on Cape Cod or in the Bronx or in the Tennessee hills than he would have 100 years ago. So while I agree with you, the differences aren't as extreme as you make them.
For instance:
"Does Eminem sell less records in NY than he does in Philadelphia, because he is from Detroit?" Actually, there probably are significant differences in how many records Eminem sells in different parts of the country. Average listening habits across the country vary significantly, and don't assume that the top 40 reflects what the youth of any given region are listening too.
"I am talking about day to day eating and drinking habits - I am rapidly gaining weight in the UK. Do you think your moving from, say, New England to California would make you gain 1lb. every two weeks?"
No, but it might make you lose 1 lb. every two weeks. With the exception of American style Pizza and 'burgers (which are everywhere), average day to day eating habits vary as much across the US as they do in Europe. What people are eating in Baton Rouge LA, Philadelphia PA, and Atlanta GA, differs markedly from what people are eating in Corpos Christi, TX, Los Angeles, CA, and Seattle, WA. If you move from Boulder, CO to New Orleans, LA I gaurantee you will gain weight if you don't watch yourself and complain about how heavy, buttery, and unhealthy the food is.
"American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same."
Suburbs I grant you, because that is by definition. a uniform planned community of mass produced houses, but urban centers? Get real. You are telling me you can't tell a resdential area of Boston, MA from a residential area of Cinncinatti, OH, from a residential area of Savannah, GA, from a residential area of New Orleans, LA? Come on, that is as different as Denmark from Spain. Granted, we in the US no longer emphasize those differences, because we take less pride in our distinctiveness than the average European, but in the older communities (built prior to WWII), it is there every bit as much as in Europe.
"Products for sale. I can't get my favourite beer in the UK anywhere. Period. The thing is, I am NOT drinking from a microbrewery. I am drinking Belgiums biggest export to the Netherlands. I can't get it in the UK at ALL. Bud pretty much sells all over the US doesn't it. Or Wendy's. Or KFC. Sure as hell I can't find a Febo in the UK."
Again, I bet you can get a Heinekan anywhere in Europe. But ask someone from PA about getting a Yingling (sp) after he moves away west, or someone from LA getting an Abita if he moves north. And 20 years ago, you couldn't get a Wendy's everywhere in the US either, and I'd be willing to bet that some people on the board aren't familiar with Jack in the Box, White Castle, Church's, Whataburger, Copland's, or Sonic and others would go 'What? You haven't heard of <insert local chain here>? There _everywhere_'
"German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison."
Don't ask me about the time a NY'er invited me (a southern boy) over for Thanksgiving dinner. I imagine we both made 6 faux pas in as much as 30 seconds, and both of us parted thinking the other was a vulgar, rude, crass, narrow minded, individual. (I came that close to hitting him, which he likely wouldn't have understood either.)
And crossing over into Spainish speaking USA, and the differences are even greater.
For instance:
"Does Eminem sell less records in NY than he does in Philadelphia, because he is from Detroit?" Actually, there probably are significant differences in how many records Eminem sells in different parts of the country. Average listening habits across the country vary significantly, and don't assume that the top 40 reflects what the youth of any given region are listening too.
"I am talking about day to day eating and drinking habits - I am rapidly gaining weight in the UK. Do you think your moving from, say, New England to California would make you gain 1lb. every two weeks?"
No, but it might make you lose 1 lb. every two weeks. With the exception of American style Pizza and 'burgers (which are everywhere), average day to day eating habits vary as much across the US as they do in Europe. What people are eating in Baton Rouge LA, Philadelphia PA, and Atlanta GA, differs markedly from what people are eating in Corpos Christi, TX, Los Angeles, CA, and Seattle, WA. If you move from Boulder, CO to New Orleans, LA I gaurantee you will gain weight if you don't watch yourself and complain about how heavy, buttery, and unhealthy the food is.
"American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same."
Suburbs I grant you, because that is by definition. a uniform planned community of mass produced houses, but urban centers? Get real. You are telling me you can't tell a resdential area of Boston, MA from a residential area of Cinncinatti, OH, from a residential area of Savannah, GA, from a residential area of New Orleans, LA? Come on, that is as different as Denmark from Spain. Granted, we in the US no longer emphasize those differences, because we take less pride in our distinctiveness than the average European, but in the older communities (built prior to WWII), it is there every bit as much as in Europe.
"Products for sale. I can't get my favourite beer in the UK anywhere. Period. The thing is, I am NOT drinking from a microbrewery. I am drinking Belgiums biggest export to the Netherlands. I can't get it in the UK at ALL. Bud pretty much sells all over the US doesn't it. Or Wendy's. Or KFC. Sure as hell I can't find a Febo in the UK."
Again, I bet you can get a Heinekan anywhere in Europe. But ask someone from PA about getting a Yingling (sp) after he moves away west, or someone from LA getting an Abita if he moves north. And 20 years ago, you couldn't get a Wendy's everywhere in the US either, and I'd be willing to bet that some people on the board aren't familiar with Jack in the Box, White Castle, Church's, Whataburger, Copland's, or Sonic and others would go 'What? You haven't heard of <insert local chain here>? There _everywhere_'
"German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison."
Don't ask me about the time a NY'er invited me (a southern boy) over for Thanksgiving dinner. I imagine we both made 6 faux pas in as much as 30 seconds, and both of us parted thinking the other was a vulgar, rude, crass, narrow minded, individual. (I came that close to hitting him, which he likely wouldn't have understood either.)
And crossing over into Spainish speaking USA, and the differences are even greater.
Last edited:
Utrecht
First Post
cthuluftaghn said:
I wholheartedly disagree... If anything I would say that Americans are embracing different cultures more than ever. I am of Dutch decent - but my 4 year old son is learning Spanish when he watches Dora the Explorer. His favorite food is Sushi - but he loves dropjes (Dutch salted licorice). The kid across the street he plays with is Korean, while his best friends are the Hernendez's from Minnissota!!!!!
So sure, if wish to isolate yourselves you can lead a very homoginized life in the States, but our "Culture" is amazing at assimilating the juicy bits from everyone who comes to this country.
Additionally, I would say that there are cultural variences within the States - after all Denver is a different from Buffalo or Orlando - as different as say Budapest no - but I can quickly tell where in the country a person is from and have a pretty good idea what thier likes and dislikes are.
Similar Threads
