[OT] National Pride?

[Zappo]

Bah! 125 miles (if'n I did my math right) is nothing. Before I had kids, I used to do that just to see a movie with friends. About a 200 mile/320 km drive is my limit for a day trip. I can do up to 350 mi/560 km for a weekend. I've done as much as 800 mi/1280 km, though. Beyond that, I fly.

Argh. You see, it's not a matter of fuel prices. It's just that if you mentioned traveling 560 km for a weekend around here, or 320 for a day trip, people would think you're insane, wasting half your holiday driving. If I feel like skiing, it's about 200 km (and already many people won't do it for a single day); if I want to go to the beach, it's 150 km; if I want a cultural holiday I can get to Venice in half an hour (or just throw a dart at the map of Italy). In 560 km, I could get to a half dozen different nations. Mind ya, we make "long" trips, but we plan them and we usually invest at least three or four days or more. We like driving time to be as small a fraction of holiday time as possible.

 

[Sanackranib]

where to start

Well I am native to southern California (that's on America's left coast for those geographically chalanged) I have also lived in Deleware (America's right cost just south of Pennsylvania) I was able to make the trip across the pond over to Austeria for a 12 day ski trip back in '85. I had a good time (but I like the food in So. Cal. better) I too would like to travel but its a time/money issue. whenever I have some of one I don't have any of the other.
thus most of my traveling reciently has been confined to points of interest in California. there are a lot of cool things to see here. and we have the best winter weather. a cold day is usually in the 50's or 60's. San Francisco eat your heart out!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

- talk about national politics - different political parties, systems, politicians. You could have a Republican/Democrat debate now couldn't you?

We have city, county, state, and national politics. One state's political climate can vary profoundly from that of another. The politics of one city or county also vary more than you seem to think.

- Food. I am not talking about some regional dishes, I am talking about day to day eating and drinking habits - I am rapidly gaining weight in the UK. Do you think your moving from, say, New England to California would make you gain 1lb. every two weeks?

Move from, say, California to the deep South and your eating habits will change. Again, there is more variance than is thought.

- Architecture. Dutch architecture is unique. German Architecture is unique. English Architecture is Unique. American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same.

That is more a matter of them not having as much history behind them as those in Europe. Still, the city centers of, say, New York and San Francisco, or Cleveland and Seattle, are very different.

- Products for sale. I can't get my favourite beer in the UK anywhere. Period. The thing is, I am NOT drinking from a microbrewery. I am drinking Belgiums biggest export to the Netherlands. I can't get it in the UK at ALL. Bud pretty much sells all over the US doesn't it. Or Wendy's. Or KFC. Sure as hell I can't find a Febo in the UK.

There are many, many regional products that are not available in different regions of the US. The ones that are best known are, indeed, available just about anywhere - Coke, Budweiser, etc. But they certainly are nowhere near being the only ones filling their niches. This has begun to change, somewhat, but has not resulted in a totally homogenous set of products. It wasn't that long ago that Coors beer was only found out in the mountain states.

- German society is very close to Dutch society. However, unless I take a course in German etiquette, I'd make 6 faux pas in an introductory meeting with a German business partner's wife, 3 of them in the first 30 seconds! So what would happen if I move 800 miles south to Italy instead of the 100 miles east to Germany form the Netherlands? Now, you do that East Coast/west coast comparison..

Hmm. Well, I worked for years unloading trucks, and we had truckers in from all over the US. Sometimes there would be truckers from, say, Missouri (no offense to anyone from the "Show Me" state) whose accents were so heavy as to be difficult to understand. However, you're right; in general the difference isn't that great. But it can still be found.

In general, I understand your point. However, some of the examples you make are more complicated than presented. But, yes, I do agree that the US is more homogenized than Europe.

 

[Lady Mer]

I'd be willing to bet that some people on the board aren't familiar with Jack in the Box, White Castle, Church's, Whataburger, Copland's, or Sonic and others would go 'What? You haven't heard of ? There _everywhere_'

Case in point. I live in Alaska- and believe me, you cannot find some things up here that are common down in the lower 48. My husband would kill for an Olive Garden, and I don't think we have ANY of those fast food places mentioned above. (I've heard of two of them- the others not even that much.) Heck, we only just recently got an IHOP.

I'm probably a bad example though. A two hundred mile drive up here doesn't put you in another country- it puts you further into the state.

 

[drothgery]

- Food. I am not talking about some regional dishes, I am talking about day to day eating and drinking habits - I am rapidly gaining weight in the UK. Do you think your moving from, say, New England to California would make you gain 1lb. every two weeks?

Maybe, maybe not; there's certainly serious differences in what's easy to get. You see a lot more Mexican and Asian influence in San Diego than you do in Boston (though you get a lot of seafood in either city, of course). And there are a lot of chain restraunts that just don't exist in certain regions.

- Architecture. Dutch architecture is unique. German Architecture is unique. English Architecture is Unique. American suburbs look the same. American Urban centers look the same.

Again, there's a lot of regionalism in the US. Buildings in San Diego and LA look similar, as do those in Cleveland and Buffalo. But Atlanta doesn't look like either of them, and neither does Seattle or Boston.

- Products for sale. I can't get my favourite beer in the UK anywhere. Period. The thing is, I am NOT drinking from a microbrewery. I am drinking Belgiums biggest export to the Netherlands. I can't get it in the UK at ALL. Bud pretty much sells all over the US doesn't it. Or Wendy's. Or KFC. Sure as hell I can't find a Febo in the UK.

One of the things that surprised me when I moved to San Diego (from Rochester, NY -- which, like Syracuse, is sort of tweener between Rust Belt culture [Buffalo/Cleveland/Chicago] and New England [Boston] culture) was how many regional chains there are out here, and how much stuff that you can get easily in one place, but not the other. Regionalisms were a lot less noticeable when I moved before, because I was primarily living in/near Rust Belt cities, except for college in New England.

 

[Sanackranib]

distances

somone else mentioned the travel distances in this country. consider it takes 4-5 days of travel to reach one coast to the other east to west and 3 days north to south. that is just the 48 connected states.

the state I live in has hundreds of miles of coastline and would take many many hours to cross by car.

 

[Piratecat]

Argh. You see, it's not a matter of fuel prices. It's just that if you mentioned traveling 560 km for a weekend around here, or 320 for a day trip, people would think you're insane, wasting half your holiday driving.

In Europe, 100 miles is a long distance. In America, 100 years is a long time.

 

[cthuluftaghn]

I wholheartedly disagree... If anything I would say that Americans are embracing different cultures more than ever

That's Okay. I'm not looking for anyone to agree with me... or with each other, for that matter. I just wanted to learn a little bit about what other people's perceptions are.

My perception while I was in Europe was that I was... hmmm... don't know how to explain... when I was in England, I FELT like I was in England. Everything from the tube, to Buckingham, to the fields and the trees, and the pubs... ah! The pubs! America has "hangouts", sure. Arcades for video gamers. Skate parks for skaters. Back alleys for derelicts. Sports bars for jocks. Coffee shops for, uh, coffee shop people. But in Britain, no matter who you are, you've got the pub. A place where anyone can go and be part of what it is to be British. DISCLAIMER: That was the overall feeling I got, and that was my perception. I'm not saying "that's the way it is". I'm just saying that I liked the way it felt. Like no matter how different you are, you're still part of the same community. It's the "sameness" that attracts me.

Here, with all the cultures that we're "embracing", it seems to me that it's all about celebrating our differences. I don't, personally, want all my differences pointed out. I want to be PART of something, and that means "sameness". That's why my family is so important to me. We're close because, not so deep down, we're the same.

 

[Sixchan]

In Europe, 100 miles is a long distance. In America, 100 years is a long time.

Ah, we Elfopeans are so superior to all you 'American Humans'. You and your nations have the lifespans on Moths, and we have Thousands of years of Rich Culture! I pity the fact you don't live in Elfope.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I have a pretty unusual situation within American culture. I grew up in an academic household which is just a little bit more isolating than growing up in a military household and has similar, if not as frequent, opporunities for travel.

When I was looking at colleges I had lived in Europe but I had never even visited the east coast. So had many of my friends and I thought we were all pretty good at handling culture shock.

My family and friends are dedicated westerners and I was strongly discouraged from considering education on the eastern seaboard as the cultural differences were subtle compared to European ones, but nonetheless powerful and difficult to adapt to. I had my own reasons for abiding by this but they included witnessing western friends travel east and return defeated.

When I did go to college I went someplace which was 40% Texan and then the rest of the population was east and norther mid-west. Seeing the other side of the culture shock for the first time really did illustrate the profound presence of American cultures.

My best friend, for instance, has an idea of class behavior that pervades her whole life and perspective on people, but I got none of it.

Even within my own state there are definite borders and boundaries of society and concepts.

On the other hand, there are plenty of cultures that work across these geographical boundaries, language cultures that complicate the issue, and the pervasive post-WWII corporate culture that makes it all recognizable.

As for history, I think that really depends on how much your willing to learn and seek it out. America doesn't have Rome or the Renaissance, but the stories are still there and there are myths sleeping in our bones.

Look at Buffy, even Cthulu has a home in the suburbs.

I'm never surprised that best movies about America as a place of wonder are made by Europeans. I think it's a major part of our myth that we have no myths.