[OT] Trolling

[DDK]

I've just been informed that I'm a troll.

Now, this is probably going to make me sound really stupid, but I'm sure lots of people think that about me anyway so a few more won't hurt. But anyway, until I was told this, and given an explanation of what a troll is, I had no idea I was doing something that is considered a faux pas.

I've never understood the whole troll thing. Maybe I'm just retarded? Stranger things are true...

However, if what I was told is true, then I have to wonder what is wrong with trolling.

A direct quote from the person, who shall remain nameless, that told me of this apparently vile tendancy of mine:

"Even you admit that your post was to get opinions and stir the pot, and began the whole thing with a lie. That's a troll... trolling for reactions."

Ok, so now I know, but I'm still confused as to why this is a bad thing.

How is wanting to spark debate and create discussion on a topic one is devoted to and interested in, in a forum where discussion and debate on topics one is devoted to and interested in is what the forum is for, a bad thing?

I truly do not understand.

This post, for instance, I'm betting is considered a troll. Did I post it to get a reaction? Umm... yes... that's the point of posting, isn't it? To get a reaction?

Now, in one particular case, I lied to get a reaction. Now, anyone that knows me closely, knows that when it matters, I'm the most honest person they could ever know. White lies about height, weight or exaggerations about skill in something or the size of a caught fish, sure, but important things, never. So to me, this was no big deal, in fact, I'm quite happy to admit that the lie was in the thread I started about piracy where I stated that I found a website with all these PDF's on it; I never found any such site. Ok, ok... so I lied, but it was on an issue that I was genuinely interested in hearing the opinions and concerns of fellow RPG fans on. And let's face it, we know those sites exist, so it's not like I was making it all up.

So I start threads that get people talking. Isn't this a good thing? Isn't this contributing to the community in a positive fashion? The above example was only ONE in which I told a little white lie in order to get things started and I haven't done so before or since.

I have a genuine concern, interest and affection for the answers and posts to the threads I create or contribute to. Yes, I'm bored and I have a lot of time on my hands and I practically live on the net. But I have no 'agenda'. There is no malice in my posts. Hell, even Morrus could vouch that I say what I mean and mean what I say and do so up front and personal-like. So any interpreted meaning in my words or through my 'trolling' is just that; interpreted. It's simply not my style to be subtle.

So... am I troll? Well... I guess so... but why is that a bad thing?

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

I've just been informed that I'm a troll.

Now, this is probably going to make me sound really stupid, but I'm sure lots of people think that about me anyway so a few more won't hurt. But anyway, until I was told this, and given an explanation of what a troll is, I had no idea I was doing something that is considered a faux pas.

I've never understood the whole troll thing. Maybe I'm just retarded? Stranger things are true...

However, if what I was told is true, then I have to wonder what is wrong with trolling.

A direct quote from the person, who shall remain nameless, that told me of this apparently vile tendancy of mine:

"Even you admit that your post was to get opinions and stir the pot, and began the whole thing with a lie. That's a troll... trolling for reactions."

Ok, so now I know, but I'm still confused as to why this is a bad thing.

How is wanting to spark debate and create discussion on a topic one is devoted to and interested in, in a forum where discussion and debate on topics one is devoted to and interested in is what the forum is for, a bad thing?

I truly do not understand.

This post, for instance, I'm betting is considered a troll. Did I post it to get a reaction? Umm... yes... that's the point of posting, isn't it? To get a reaction?

Now, in one particular case, I lied to get a reaction. Now, anyone that knows me closely, knows that when it matters, I'm the most honest person they could ever know. White lies about height, weight or exaggerations about skill in something or the size of a caught fish, sure, but important things, never. So to me, this was no big deal, in fact, I'm quite happy to admit that the lie was in the thread I started about piracy where I stated that I found a website with all these PDF's on it; I never found any such site. Ok, ok... so I lied, but it was on an issue that I was genuinely interested in hearing the opinions and concerns of fellow RPG fans on. And let's face it, we know those sites exist, so it's not like I was making it all up.

So I start threads that get people talking. Isn't this a good thing? Isn't this contributing to the community in a positive fashion? The above example was only ONE in which I told a little white lie in order to get things started and I haven't done so before or since.

I have a genuine concern, interest and affection for the answers and posts to the threads I create or contribute to. Yes, I'm bored and I have a lot of time on my hands and I practically live on the net. But I have no 'agenda'. There is no malice in my posts. Hell, even Morrus could vouch that I say what I mean and mean what I say and do so up front and personal-like. So any interpreted meaning in my words or through my 'trolling' is just that; interpreted. It's simply not my style to be subtle.

So... am I troll? Well... I guess so... but why is that a bad thing?

The "definition" of troll used ignores a few aspects of what some (like myself) consider trolling.

A troll usually posts something inflammatory. And I mean that in the worst sense of the word: Arousing strong emotion, especially anger, belligerence... .

Trolls often post something directly antithetical to the group's purpose (like posting "fat people suck" on a Weight Watchers group, "3e sucks!" on a 3e message board, or similar mean-spirited comments).

I'd have to go back and read more of your posts to decide whether or not I consider you a troll. I don't think (from what I recall) that's you've been particularly "troll-ish" but I may be forgetting something.

At any rate, troll or not, I would not start off posts with a lie, even if it is a "harmless" little lie, or just to "start something." The whole "boy who cried wolf" syndrome, and all. For me, it just leads to a general mistrust of all of a person's posts. Which means I'm less like to react publicly to your posts...which, you say, is the whole point. If you'll lie to make a point, well, you'll lie again to make another point. All of your data becomes suspect.


Billy Goat Gruff

 

[aliensex]

Well, there is always a fine line between a debate and an argument. So I guess there is also a fine line between STARTING a debate and STARTING an argument.

Trolling is generally about intent. If you post a subject and idea with the intention of getting people mad at you and each other, then that is trolling, so it is a subjective thing.

Sometimes a debate can be started, then someone comes in and starts flaming everyone they disagree with. Thats not the fault of the topic starter.

Personally I like a good debate, I tolerate anybody's point of view.

Just remember, on the internet everyone's opinion is equally worthless

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Re: Re: [OT] Trolling

For me, it just leads to a general mistrust of all of a person's posts

Bingo.

Fourecks, I don't consider you a troll, but I try not to waste my time on any discussions you start.

I have no appreciation for being deceived. It does not matter what intentions led to that deception.

SD

 

[MEG Hal]

One of the key words you used was "lying" if you are here to start a debate, I am cool with that if you start with a lie to start a debate OFF WITH YOUR HEAD now since you are a troll you will regenerate, so all in all that is not as horrendous as it could be . Lying bugs me stirring up debate does not.

 

[EricNoah]

If this isn't a Meta thread, I don't know what is. And awayyyy we go...

 

[Bagpuss]

Personally I love a good troll. I can't see the problem with them.

First it usually high-lights all the hypersensitive or stupid people, who jump right in screaming their opposition to the poster. Helps to know who they are so you can avoid them in future.

Second it sparks a debate which are always more interesting than so and so latest house rule.

Third it usually leads to some sort of consensus, which makes you feel part of a group of people, so it comforts all the lonely people that only have a life through the internet.

Only good can come from trolls. (I miss Bugaboo)

 

[DDK]

Trolling is generally about intent. If you post a subject and idea with the intention of getting people mad at you and each other, then that is trolling, so it is a subjective thing.

So in other words it doesn't really matter what is said, or even intended, as ultimately the judgement call is made by the mods.

I could be the envy of sweetness & light and yet still be labelled a troll.

Personally I like a good debate, I tolerate anybody's point of view.

So do I which is partly why I'm here. Beats playing a computer game especially since I write in-between posting and even if I'm not doing that, I'm writing when I'm posting... engages the brain on some level at least.

Originally posted by Sagan Darkside
Fourecks, I don't consider you a troll, but I try not to waste my time on any discussions you start.

Why? Or did you mean you won't from now on?

Originally posted by Sagan Darkside
I have no appreciation for being deceived. It does not matter what intentions led to that deception.

A very rigid position to take, given the nature of humanity. Are you saying you never, ever, ever at all, do not, under no circumstance and will never lie? Even just a small smidgeon of exaggeration?

The mere fact that I admitted it just goes to prove that overall I'm very honest, after all, I'm admitting it to my own detriment... but anyway...

 

[Larry Fitz]

I love when Eric moves a thread I'm reading, it's like a virtual rollercoaster, well metaphysically... kind of... um... back to the topic....


For me Fourecks the problem in lying in posts is that later when someone points out consequences of what you said (like publishers requesting the name of the site so they can take appropriate actions) you either have to seem like a co-conspirator and say "I won't tell you." Or cast further doubt on yourself by saying "Oh, that? I made that up." Which means people aren't sure when you are lying or not. Your post would have generated the identical commentary if you had mentioned that sites exist where such things are downloadable, and it still would have been shut down when it reached the point at which it was shut down (I apologize for my part in that BTW). It is one thing to be willing to lie to save a life or protect the reputation of a deserving friend. it's quite another to lie casually to make your post seem more authoritative, don't you think? I believe you are a forthright and sincere person, but in the limited forum presented here it will be difficult for other people to see that now. For myself, heck I''m still willing to come to Australia and run a game for you and your friends....

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

The great Bugaboo was a troll and you didn't see anyone complaining about him, right?

You can't be serious.