Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[3catcircus]

That is going to be the most interesting part of this initiative from my perspective. Although I am not happy that the magazines are going bye-bye, and don't believe that was necessarily a prerequisite to the Digital Initiative, as an ePublisher I am thrilled that WotC has taken on the burden of converting their millions of players into people who will not only be online but also will spend money online monthly. It is amazing how small a percentage of their target market I would need to be comfortable as an ePublisher.

The question is whether or not their market research is any good and/or whether or not they have misread their research. The statistics can be manipulated any way you want.

1. How many people who bought the core books buy other WotC books?

2. How many people who bought the core books subscribe to Dragon and Dungeon? How many don't subscribe but buy them from their FLGS?

3. How many have regular broadband access? How many have a credit card?

4. How many routinely are online *during* their game sessions?

5. How many feel comfortable paying for a product that may not be available (power outage, site issues) or may not remain available (subscription lapses) when a paper product is available well after you've given them your money? Will the product be a pdf or a Java application(s) with a back-end set of databases storing *your* data on a remote server?

 

[Mark CMG]

Great questions, 3catcircus, and I'm looking forward to getting details on and seeing this Digital Initiative in hopes that some answers will become more obvious. I don't think we'll ever see the kind of summary on market research produced in 2000 reproduced in current times, though that is precisely the sort of thing that would quiet a lot of fears and zip a lot of lips, mine included, I suppose. They've had seven years since then to collect new data. I wonder if they would speak to that with the same candor as Ryan Dancey always has? Perhaps those are the questions that need to be in that pseudo-interview thread stickied to the top of the forum. Will you add them above?

 

[Thurbane]

Maybe hindsight truly is 20/20 but I have to really agree with this. Letting us know what was coming (like Paizo did. Those Paizo guys ROCK!) would have helped lessen all the rage we are seeing.

Spot on!

 

[Thurbane]

Finally, I'd like to comment to those who take umbrage at the description of losing Dragon as feeling like the death of an old friend. Well, like you, I have lost old friends myself. I know what grief feels like, and this is the exact same feeling, no more and no less. Same emotions, same physical reactions, same shock and anguish. If you want to argue that it's somehow bad of me to have that close an emotional attachment to a magazine, you can argue 'til you're blue in the face and all I have to say is "Bite me." I love what I love, and when it is taken from me, I grieve. So kindly get out of my face.

Well said.

Myself, I came from a small family of 4. The other 3 have all passed away within the last 2 years or so from illness. While I don't feel the loss of Dragon as accutely as I felt the loss of my family, it is most defintely the same type of feeling - loss and grief.

 

[3catcircus]

Great questions, 3catcircus, and I'm looking forward to getting details on and seeing this Digital Initiative in hopes that some answers will become more obvious. I don't think we'll ever see the kind of summary on market research produced in 2000 reproduced in current times, though that is precisely the sort of thing that would quiet a lot of fears and zip a lot of lips, mine included, I suppose. They've had seven years since then to collect new data. I wonder if they would speak to that with the same candor as Ryan Dancey always has? Perhaps those are the questions that need to be in that pseudo-interview thread stickied to the top of the forum. Will you add them above?

Can do.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

Hey folks,

While I stand by everything I said in my blog, that should in no way be taken to mean I don't respect this community, or even this thread. Do I think some people have gone overboard? sure do. And I specfiically mention in my post that it's their right to do so, for all the good it'll do them.

If you want to pay WotC to make a magazine for you, and you'll shell out the millions such a start-up costs, they'll do it I'm sure. But make no mistake, no market that mass produces tens of thousands of the same product (as opposed to those that sell custom versions to end users) is going to depend on fan reaction over the reality they have witnessed in years of business.

I want to specifically thank those of you who have made sure I know you don't universally hate me, and that no unfair "pilling on" will be alowed on me any more than anyone else. I love this community, for all my issues with any given person or opinion. If I didn't, I wouldn't ever take time to post here.

Mark my words -- the DI will succeed or fail based on its own merits, not on leftover bad feelings from now. Feel free to mourn the loss of something we loved. I do.

But honestly, I suspect WotC is letting the announcement out now because Paizo needs to show what they have at GAMA this weekend. wotc doesn't. So even if they aren't ready yet, WotC is doing the right thing by the company they have worked well with in the past. It's MONTHS before it'll matter exactly what is in the DI.

In my opinion, the only useful discussion now is what do we WANT in the DI? How would we like it handled. Because, it's going to happen. No matter what, even if the DI doesn't get a single subscriber, there will be no print magazine for a few years at least. I suspect it's gone forever.

And I also suspect for every single person with no interest in online content, there are at least two with no interest in a physical magazine.

 

[lrsach01]

Looks like Paizo wasn't the only one. Dragonlance has now been added to the list.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=194407

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks for the clarification, Owen.

 

[Thurbane]

Mark my words -- the DI will succeed or fail based on its own merits, not on leftover bad feelings from now. Feel free to mourn the loss of something we loved. I do.

You'd be surprised how long some people retain memories of shabby treatement from a company, and have that affect their future spending. I've seen that in all of the industries I've worked in.

And I also suspect for every single person with no interest in online content, there are at least two with no interest in a physical magazine.

I respectfully diagree. In a P&P based hobby, the preference of physical books and magazines is bound to be quite high...

 

[freebfrost]

I just got my email notice from Paizo about this, as did other subscribers I assume. I wonder if we'll see another surge in posts at Wizards/Paizo/elsewhere with the subscribers who don't normally go online to forums and the like?