Pathfinder 2E Paizo's Stephen Radney-MacFarland Previews The Rogue Class For Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

We saw the fighter last week; today it's the turn of the rogue! Paizo's Stephen Radney-MacFarland gives the inside scoop on rogue features, and feats.

Rogue by Wayne Reynolds
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What do we know from this latest blog entry? Here's some class features:

• Sneak Attack (1st level) -- Rogues get Sneak Attack as their first class feature. Extra d6s of damage vs. flat-footed foes (such as flanked enemies, or those who fall victim to the Surprise Attack feature).
• Surprise Attack (1st level) -- "during the first round of combat, the rogue treats any creature that has not taken its turn yet as if it were flat-footed."
• Debilitating Strike (9th level) -- entangle or enfeeble targets in addition to damage. Higher levels add more conditions.
• Master Strike (19th level) -- ... culminating in Master Strike, which is an insta-kill at 19th level.
• More skill ranks, proficiencies, and skill feats than any other class. One skill feat per level rather than every other level.

And here's some class feats a rogue can take:

• Nimble Dodge -- +2 AC at a whim.
• Mobility (2nd level) -- move half speed and ignore reactions like attacks of opportunity.
• Reactive Pursuit (4th level) -- a sticky ability which allows the rogue to chase after foes who try to disengage.
• Dead Striker (4th level) -- treat frightened creatures as flat-footed.
• Gang Up (6th level) -- treat enemies within melee range of of your an ally as flat-footed.
• Twist the Knife (6th level) -- if you do sneak attack damage, do ongoing bleeding damage equal to half your sneak attack dice.
• Instant Opening (14th level) -- make a creature within 30' flat-footed until the end of your next turn.
• Cognitive Loophole -- ignore a mental effect for a round before it takes hold.
• Blank Slate (16th level) -- immune to detection, revelation, and scrying effects.

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[mach1.9pants]

A quick, off-topic aside: dodge as a feat would be better in 5e than 3.x/PF...

But yes, I too loathe this feat chain thing.

It has specifically pointed out by the devs that there are no feat chains of the Dodge> Mobility> Spring Attack type. There are the improving ones, like Vital Strike> Improved Vital Strike> Greater Vital Strike, which just make a feat's mechanical effects better.

 

[pming]

Wow. I guess they're probably going to rename it from "Rogue" to what it is: "Action-Hero" or maybe "Ninja-Jedi-Batman-Genius".

All we see is combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat and combat; oh and a totally transparent attempt to hide "and extra COMBAT stuff you can add yourself" under the guise of "and extra skills and feats".

I wasn't a big fan of PF1. Definitely avoiding PF2. No point if this is the direction they are taking things. I mean, they HAVE to 'balance' the other classes to this monstrosity of a combat monster. So PF2 seems to be focused on three pillars too I guess. But PF2's three pillars are Combat, Killing and Fighting.

...sigh... Oh well...

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Charlaquin]

After what was to me a very promising-looking Fighter preview, I’m very underwhelmed with what I’m seeing here for the rogue. Sneak Attack is fine, but nothing that hasn’t come to be expected in any D&D-alike. Debilitating Strikes sound good, but 9th level is WAY too late for what seems to be the class’s main sorurce of interesting things to do in combat. Some mobility feats and some flat-footed enabling feats, which are basically just two different flavors of “make it easier to set up Sneak Attack,” so it seems like for half their careers (or in a campaign of more realistic length, 90% of their careers) their sole activity in combat will consist of attacking for a piddly amount of damage, or attacking for a more reasonable amount of damage, depending on if they can set up whatever circumstance their Feats allow them to use Sneak Attack under.

Skill Feats every level is fine, but boring. I like Skill Monkeys, but the PF1 fighter proved that “the same Feats everyone else can take, but more of them” isn’t a particularly interesting defining characteristic for a class.

 

[Aldarc]

Absolutely! That's why we will be playtesting it.

The PF1 was reliant on Sneak Attack for damage, which was detrimental for rogues as there were so many monsters immune to sneak attack, critical hits, or even flanking. This made the rogue weak in comparison with a number of similar classes that had other tricks up their sleeve. Will the PF2 rogue have anything to address that?

 

[Erdric Dragin]

Wow. I guess they're probably going to rename it from "Rogue" to what it is: "Action-Hero" or maybe "Ninja-Jedi-Batman-Genius".

All we see is combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat and combat; oh and a totally transparent attempt to hide "and extra COMBAT stuff you can add yourself" under the guise of "and extra skills and feats".

I wasn't a big fan of PF1. Definitely avoiding PF2. No point if this is the direction they are taking things. I mean, they HAVE to 'balance' the other classes to this monstrosity of a combat monster. So PF2 seems to be focused on three pillars too I guess. But PF2's three pillars are Combat, Killing and Fighting.

...sigh... Oh well...

^_^

Paul L. Ming

It's WotC and 4e/5e all over again. I'm sick of RPG companies doing this. Stick with one edition and just enhance it or clean it up in a new edition, quit overhauling entire systems!

 

[Aldarc]

It's WotC and 4e/5e all over again. I'm sick of RPG companies doing this. Stick with one edition and just enhance it or clean it up in a new edition, quit overhauling entire systems!

Pathfinder is already a repeatedly-patched 10-year-old system that attempted to clean up a repeatedly-patched ten-year-old system. There are only so many times you can patch a system before it's time to develop a new one.

 

[Adso]

The PF1 was reliant on Sneak Attack for damage, which was detrimental for rogues as there were so many monsters immune to sneak attack, critical hits, or even flanking. This made the rogue weak in comparison with a number of similar classes that had other tricks up their sleeve. Will the PF2 rogue have anything to address that?

Yes. But, that is more on the monster design side of things which is another blog entirely.

 

[Morrus]

It's WotC and 4e/5e all over again. I'm sick of RPG companies doing this. Stick with one edition and just enhance it or clean it up in a new edition, quit overhauling entire systems!

How's your Ford Model T, by the way? Still running OK?

 

[Arakasius]

The game has way too much cruft from 3.5, they needed to clean it up. As for the preview it seems fine although I am wanting to read the skills blog to have more of an idea what we can do with all the skills. Here they were mostly showing class feats, so it makes sense it’s combat focused. Sneak attack is the rogue thing, so ways to get it off are quite important for them.

 

[houser2112]

Wow. I guess they're probably going to rename it from "Rogue" to what it is: "Action-Hero" or maybe "Ninja-Jedi-Batman-Genius".

All we see is combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat, combat and combat; oh and a totally transparent attempt to hide "and extra COMBAT stuff you can add yourself" under the guise of "and extra skills and feats".

Perhaps you missed this:

More skill ranks, proficiencies, and skill feats than any other class. One skill feat per level rather than every other level.

Be patient, I guess is what I'm trying to say.