D&D 5E Paladin warlock

[Warpiglet]

I was recently struck with inspiration for a new character. While the options chosen are for RP/fluff largely,within these parameters I want to make a fun long lasting character. I am going with a tiefling oath of ancients paladin and fey pact warlock multiclass. I chose the folk hero background exchanging stealth for animal handling. Basic premise is a tiefling is sheltered by people in an agrarian setting or would have been killed by the local noble due to his race. How the daughter of the farmer ended up pregnant is another story.

In any event, the tiefling did heroic things to protect the people gaining a measure of acceptance from these rural folk. Hiding from authorities, he resides in the nearby wood, finds mystical places and is assailed and tempted by two voices (one fey and one fiend) before choosing "good." When innocents are threatened, his hellish ancestry must be reined in. Those are the very,very basics.

From an RP/image standpoint, I want a sprite familiar which means pact of the chain. However, I want to fight effectively. Two attacks could come from blade pact or paladin levels. What are some recommended pros and cons of various level cut offs? I am looking to have a character that can stealth and fight/confuse with magic. Image means a lot---recommendations for cool "find steed" much appreciated as a complement to the exotic familiar....So again, what level progression do folks recommend keeping in mind fun and effectiveness?

 

[bid]

You need Str13 and Cha13 to MC. Something like 15 9 14 10 10 16 with point buy. I don't think you'll get anything from stealth.

Your goal is paladin 7 / warlock 3, anything beyond is RP/fluff-based. I am surprised you did not consider GOO lock along with OotA. You will need warcaster if you use a shield.

The typical path is paladin 6 ASAP, then warlock 3. Going paladin 2 / warlock 3 would do enough damage with EB until you get extra attack.


If you want to go Dex/Cha with extra attack, fighter 5 is easiest. Or just start fighter 1 for medium armor and get booming blade or greenfire blade. But that means no smite. :/

 

[mellored]

You need Str13 and Cha13 to MC. Something like 15 9 14 10 10 16 with point buy. I don't think you'll get anything from stealth.

Dex is still an option for paladin.

Yea, you'll need 13 Str, but that's not unachievable. It simply means less Con, but hopefully you'll make up for it with surprise and the like.


Also, you can go warlock X / paladin 2 and just use green flame blade + smite for melee damage. Ignoring multi-attack all together.

Though the aura's are very nice.

 

[Yunru]

Paladin 2/Warlock X is awesome.
I once planned a Palalock that did terrific Nova damage.
Oathbreaker Paladin 7/Warlock 13.
Stack all the smites and all the CHA (twice for Cha actually).
Of course Paladin 11/Warlock 9 is also a good end point.

If Oathbreaker is allowed, head for Paladin 7, otherwise I advise just a 2 level start in Paladin and then go Warlock. At least, until you get 4th level pact magic slots.

 

[Warpiglet]

Sounds fun!

 

[Ovarwa]

*ugh, no formatting* Hi, Paladock/Wardins/etc are interesting in various combinations. Ignoring leveling order for a bit, I find a wide "sweet spot" from P6/Wa14 all the way to P13/Wa7. Not bladelock, preferably Tome. P6 has both 2nd melee attack and Cha to saves. P7 gives an Oath-based Aura, not to be missed for some Oaths. P8 gives an ASI. P9 gives 3rd level Paladin spells. P11 gives all smite all the time. P12 gives another ASI and P13 gives 4th level Paladin spells. But Wa7 grants 2 4th level slots, which is optimized if you want to smite with them. Wa8 grants an ASI, Wa9 boosts the slots to 5th level, Wa11 grants a Mystic Arcanum and and extra spell slot, Wa13 grants another Mystic Arcanum and Wa14 provides a (usually) great Pact Boon. I'm missing various invocations along the way. The issue is when to bring things online, because level 20 is utterly uninteresting. The great thing is that it is easy to decide what suits your campaign best as you go. Another great thing is that you can do well at both melee and ranged combat. Hold a choke point with melee or hang back to protect the squishies with your Auras while blasting eldritchly.... the choice is yours, every combat. Starting with Paladin 1 for heavy armor is easy. Paladin 2 is not a no-brainer though, because you are forced to choose a fighting style and cannot change your mind. Going all the way to Paladin 6, 7, 8 or even 9 is still great... but that makes you an ordinary paladin for a long time. Doing a sprint to level 6 or 7 for those Auras is not a mistake at all! Pa6..11/Wa2..11/etc is fine. But doing Pa1/Wa1..4 is also great: No smites yet, but you do have a second excellent attack at level 5 along with everyone else, albeit only at range. You also have an ASI at level 5, only 1 level behind (take Cha), and Shillelagh at level 3, if you want it. Then more paladin to at least level 6, possibly more. Second ASI (Cha) comes online on time at level 8. Second melee attack at level 9, first Aura at level 10, second at level 11. Then again, Pa1/Wa2/Pa6..11/Wa7..WaX/etc is also great. A quick dip into Warlock for ranged attacks and Hex, and then run with Paladin for a while. Both Warlock and Paladin have many spells that do not scale well (or at all), and Warlock does not have awesome level 5 spells, so the low level paladin spell slots are extremely useful. I suspect that ASIs look like +Cha * 2, Resilient Con and/or Warcaster, and then whatever. A variant human might start with Heavy Armor Mastery for the usual reasons, deferring the other feats. But a Parlock with +Cha to saves needs Resilient Con a bit less than other casters who want to mix it up in melee, and a Paladin with a Greatsword need not cast spells in melee, so other feat choices are available. The value of Shillelagh will vary, depending on your campaign. If you expect to find Gauntlets of Ogre Strength and/or a Holy Avenger, maybe not. OTOH, in that kind of game, a Staff of Power also makes a fine weapon/focus... I think this path does not suck at any level. All the basic goodies come online at level 10: 20 Cha, 2 melee attacks, 2 eldritch blasts, Cha to saves, heavy armor, fighting style, Warlock and Paladin spells, extra cantrips and rituals, familiar *and* mount. Level 11 adds a 3rd EB and probably your second Aura (or 3rd level Warlock spells.) All in all, very nice. Anyway, Ken

 

[Warpiglet]

Thanks much for the detailed analysis! Very very insightful. The only problem is that I am now almost wondering if I should just stay paladin and dip warlock! Now I know why---there is something good at almost all level splits! I am toying with pal 2, 3 levels lock and then take r more pal before God knows what! The other idea is to take r pal and the lock for a long while: this won't be an easy decision....

 

[Ovarwa]

(Hmm. This time my CRs worked. The [p] I tried was a waste. I wonder if replying with a quote does something different than replying to a thread.)

Thanks much for the detailed analysis! Very very insightful. The only problem is that I am now almost wondering if I should just stay paladin and dip warlock! Now I know why---there is something good at almost all level splits! I am toying with pal 2, 3 levels lock and then take r more pal before God knows what! The other idea is to take r pal and the lock for a long while: this won't be an easy decision....

I don't recommend that, because I like ASIs. Pa2/Wa3/PaX puts off your first one until level 7. Starting Pa2 is fine, but then why not Pa4? (And if Pa4, why not Pa6? And since you want OoA, an excellent choice, why not Pa7? At that point your second ASI is just one level off. But then 3rd level spells await at level 9... Paladin is a fine class.
[p]
On the other hand, Pa2 gives you spells, smite and a fighting style, but Pa1/Wa1 gives you spells and cantrips, including the awesome EB, which gets even better at Pa1/Wa2 with your first invocation. I think Pa2 is slightly better than Pa1/Wa1, but am less sure about Pa3 vs Pa1/Wa2. Pa5 vs Pa1/Wa4? Both are excellent, but different.
[p]
For me, the paladin Auras are what make the class special. Many classes cast spells better, some classes do better damage, but no one has anything like the paladin Auras, with OoA having an exceptionally good one. So going for Pa7 first is technically correct, I think... but it takes forever to get the feel you want.
[p]
I also strongly recommend Tome over Chain. You still have a familiar, though not as good, but get so much more, especially for melee.
[p]
Pa1/Wa(Tome)4/Pa9/??? is my overall recommendation. But, whatever is fun.
[p]
Anyway....

 

[Warpiglet]

(Hmm. This time my CRs worked. The [p] I tried was a waste. I wonder if replying with a quote does something different than replying to a thread.)


I don't recommend that, because I like ASIs. Pa2/Wa3/PaX puts off your first one until level 7. Starting Pa2 is fine, but then why not Pa4? (And if Pa4, why not Pa6? And since you want OoA, an excellent choice, why not Pa7? At that point your second ASI is just one level off. But then 3rd level spells await at level 9... Paladin is a fine class.
[p]
On the other hand, Pa2 gives you spells, smite and a fighting style, but Pa1/Wa1 gives you spells and cantrips, including the awesome EB, which gets even better at Pa1/Wa2 with your first invocation. I think Pa2 is slightly better than Pa1/Wa1, but am less sure about Pa3 vs Pa1/Wa2. Pa5 vs Pa1/Wa4? Both are excellent, but different.
[p]
For me, the paladin Auras are what make the class special. Many classes cast spells better, some classes do better damage, but no one has anything like the paladin Auras, with OoA having an exceptionally good one. So going for Pa7 first is technically correct, I think... but it takes forever to get the feel you want.
[p]
I also strongly recommend Tome over Chain. You still have a familiar, though not as good, but get so much more, especially for melee.
[p]
Pa1/Wa(Tome)4/Pa9/??? is my overall recommendation. But, whatever is fun.
[p]
Anyway....

Interesting...I too really value ASIs and feats. The wait hurts, especially for two attacks. Just out of curiosity...why tome for combat? And why level 9 pal instead of 8?

 

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Interesting...I too really value ASIs and feats. The wait hurts, especially for two attacks. Just out of curiosity...why tome for combat? And why level 9 pal instead of 8?

Tome lets you take Shillelagh, which lets you use Cha instead of Str for attacking with a staff, which also works as an arcane focus. Your first 2 ASIs bring Cha to 20, which then helps your Auras, your melee, your EB, and many other spells. That's great for combat. (Then you can take 2 more cantrips from any list. Guidance? Minor Illusion? Then you get the big book of rituals, take Find Familiar first, and go collect all the rituals. That's great for utility.) Of course, if you want to maximize melee damage, a polearm or greatsword is better. Pa1/Wa4 gives you a second attack at the same time as everyone else (2 * [1d10 + 4]), and delays the first ASI by just one level. That's not bad. Start with Str16 and Cha16, boosting Cha and ignoring Str. Pa9 offers level3 Paladin spells. Some of these are very useful. At worst, you have 2 more level 3 slots for smites. But if you like the Warlock stuff better, that's fine too. Anyway, Ken