Paladin's Challenge Question

[GorTeX]

I just noticed this wording in the Divine Challenge ability of the paladin

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack
rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target.
Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma
modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn't include
you as a target before the start of your next turn. The
damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th
level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

Does this mean that the DC only does damage once..not once a round?

 

[Lurker37]

Once a round. I agree the wording is poor.

 

[sukael]

Yes. If you want the damage to continue, you keep having to use divine challenge (a minor action each turn).

EDIT: My interpretation, anyway, and what seems like the RAW even if it's not the RAI.

 

[Gloombunny]

The writing does seem to indicate that it's only once per challenge, but I'm quite certain it's intended to be once per round. Once per challenge just doesn't make sense. It was once per round at the D&DXP preview thing, and they amended it after that to add the "must engage every round" criterion. I think they just slipped up as they were rewording it and accidentally introduced another unintended change.

Yes. If you want the damage to continue, you keep having to use divine challenge (a minor action each turn).

The thing is, you're explicitly forbidden from re-using the challenge on the same creature. You'd have to keep challenging a different enemy every turn, or at least alternate between two enemies. I can't for the life of me imagine why the developers would decide that's the way a paladin should fight. Plus, it would mean that a paladin is a really lousy defender when the party is fighting a solo monster.

 

[sukael]

The thing is, you're explicitly forbidden from re-using the challenge on the same creature. You'd have to keep challenging a different enemy every turn, or at least alternate between two enemies. I can't for the life of me imagine why the developers would decide that's the way a paladin should fight. Plus, it would mean that a paladin is a really lousy defender when the party is fighting a solo monster.

Good point.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Actually, while I agree the power is phrased a little awkwardly, I think it says exactly what it means to say. The OP quoted it like this:

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack
rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target.
Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma
modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn't include
you as a target before the start of your next turn. The
damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th
level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

But I'd suggest the problem is that he's isolating only part of a single thought. Look at it like this:

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack
rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target.
Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma
modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn't include
you as a target before the start of your next turn. The
damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th
level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

In other words, you have to keep the "before the start of your next turn" restriction in mind, not just the "first time" restriction.

Then, since the power gives rules for maintaining it round after round, that obviously becomes a restriction that applies each round, before the start of your next turn.

As I said, awkwardly phrased, but I think the rule is there as intended, if you read it right.

 

[Cabral]

On a related note, when a power marks a target, is that target marked per the class's standard mark (ie, Divine Challenge) or is it just marked for purposes of following up with something like "If target is marked, get X benefit"? I am asking because the Paladin gets an encounter power (or is it a daily?) at first level that lets you mark [Wisdom] targets in a burst.

 

[DracoSuave]

On a related note, when a power marks a target, is that target marked per the class's standard mark (ie, Divine Challenge) or is it just marked for purposes of following up with something like "If target is marked, get X benefit"? I am asking because the Paladin gets an encounter power (or is it a daily?) at first level that lets you mark [Wisdom] targets in a burst.

That depends. Divine Challenge marks someone and applies another effect. It's really two things it does there. The burst-mark ability marks them, and the other effect is the damage dealt.

The paladin at-will that does bonus damage to marked critters doesn't care -how- it was marked by you. Only that it is marked at all. The mark itself has the same effect no matter the method, -2 to attacking everyone but you. However, most abilities that mark have another component to them as well, either damage, or consequences to hitting someone else, or both.

Fighters, on the other hand, mark as part of all attacks, and have an ability that triggers off of marked guys doing stuff no matter how they are marked by you, just caring that it's marked.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Mouseferatu hit the nail on the head. I am glad I don't have to get into another 100 post thread about this. It's obvious what's intended for the power. And if you don't ignore the rest of the wording of the power it says straight up what the power does. In addition, the word "also" links both parts of the challenge together. So as long as the target is marked it gets BOTH effects, one of them being -2 to hit a target besides the paladin, the other being that the first attack it makes during any given round that doesn't include the paladin inflicts the stated radiant damage. This means each round that it remains marked, the first attack before the next round will trigger the damage.

 

[Shabe]

Re: Cabral's question about marking with paladin power

As per the rules, I said that the player marked them giving the creatures the marked status as it doesn't say in the Power that it Divine Challenges them.