Pathfinder 2 and the game Paizo should have made

[ikos]

This sort of things also came up in the playtest last year, especially once you hit the double digits. Even though the wheels were still firmly on the ground (unlike PF1), math scaling with level, everyone's fist full of damage dice, and superflous walls of feats made battles quite unpleasant and a bit too much for our group of old timers. The best thing the GM Guide can offer are ways to tamp down on the lard and offer "less is more" variable options.

 

[Parmandur]

This sort of things also came up in the playtest last year, especially once you hit the double digits. Even though the wheels were still firmly on the ground (unlike PF1), math scaling with level, everyone's fist full of damage dice, and superflous walls of feats made battles quite unpleasant and a bit too much for our group of old timers. The best thing the GM Guide can offer are ways to tamp down on the lard and offer "less is more" variable options.

That's the thing, though, this isn't just an issue for "old timers," since young people in the hobby have similar expectations.

 

[JeffB]

Oh, goodness. I remember an anecdote from last decade, about a guy running a four-hour OSR rules game a table away from a group playing 4E. The OSR game went through half a dozen combats, a whole bunch of exploration, going back to town and social interactions. The 4E table got through a single fight in the same timeframe.

No doubt you can get through so much more in a very light system. My own 4E games were not that drawn out however, as I "13th Aged" 4E* to adapt to our TOTM style


* before 13th Age became a thing

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I mean, it’s selling and it’s forums are pretty active and positive, so...clearly they know who they made it for.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's the thing, though, this isn't just an issue for "old timers," since young people in the hobby have similar expectations.

Oh yeah. My group avoided crunchy feats like plague unless the bonuses were constant and thus became background character sheet math if 4e, because we just wanted to use our powers or improvise stunts without having to halt the game and crunch numbers and factor in 7 feats. Better to just take Linguist or a skill focus feat.

 

[BryonD]

I mean, it’s selling and it’s forums are pretty active and positive, so...clearly they know who they made it for.

Couldn't you have said that same thing about 1E 3 weeks before 2E was announced?
Are the people there the same as the people they had in mind when they started the process?
Has it created a sustainable alternative?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Couldn't you have said that same thing about 1E 3 weeks before 2E was announced?
Are the people there the same as the people they had in mind when they started the process?
Has it created a sustainable alternative?

Does it matter? It’s working.

 

[gyor]

My big issue with how it came up with some cool ideas like different power sources for different sorcerer bloodlines (likely inspired by the Divine Soul Sorcerer of 5e) and Ancestory instead of race, but seemed to bungle the execution.

For example each type of magic spell list
is balanced around a none Sorcerer class, Arcane is balanced around Wizards, Occult around Bards, Primal around Druids, and Divine around Clerics. The Sorcerer is most like the Wizard, so Arcane Sorcerer's are fine, but for example Divine Sorcerer's don't have good spell selection in comparison because the Divine Spell list is much smaller and focused, which is made up for by other cleric features in the cleric, but those don't exist for the Sorcerer.

And the Ancestory feats feel boring.

 

[Parmandur]

My big issue with how it came up with some cool ideas like different power sources for different sorcerer bloodlines (likely inspired by the Divine Soul Sorcerer of 5e) and Ancestory instead of race, but seemed to bungle the execution.

For example each type of magic spell list
is balanced around a none Sorcerer class, Arcane is balanced around Wizards, Occult around Bards, Primal around Druids, and Divine around Clerics. The Sorcerer is most like the Wizard, so Arcane Sorcerer's are fine, but for example Divine Sorcerer's don't have good spell selection in comparison because the Divine Spell list is much smaller and focused, which is made up for by other cleric features in the cleric, but those don't exist for the Sorcerer.

And the Ancestory feats feel boring.

I think the variety of Sorcerer bloodlines were in PF1.

 

[Campbell]

I think the variety of Sorcerer bloodlines were in PF1.

They still were all Arcane casters. Now the various bloodlines use whichever of the Four Traditions (Arcane, Divine, Occult, Primal) fits thematically with the bloodline. There is also a much larger selection of bloodlines.