Paying the Pig vs. Goofing Off

[jester47]

Making me fight a flame war, ok, fine...

See, you personally do not like cell phones, even outside a game. So your bias is obvious - and hence your credibility on the issue is zero.

We will get back to this. (1)

Playing a game that goes on for many hours, and happens every week, and the only people you might interupt are your personal close friends, is totally different from a movie or opera setting. If you think its the same - it's time to take a break from the game. Because that is all it is - friends playing a game, and just for the fun of it.

I agree, but as a DM, I take time to prepare my presentation. If the opposing attorney's cell phone went off while he was in court and the judge was talking, how do you think the judge would feel? Thats how a DM feels. Evergencies are cool, work is cool. Trivial stuff is not cool.

Me, I'm an attorney. I need a cell phone on me, at all times. It allows me to communicate with my clients during emergencies (and yes, they are far too common in this line of work, and my advice over the phone at that moment is critical). It also allows me to maintain my social and familial relations better, during those extended times when personal contact is forced to be short. I used to HATE HATE HATE cell phones. Then I got one, and I suddenly knew why everyone seemed to love them. Life really did get better once I had a cell phone.

You are an attorney. And you have just told me that your cell phone is needed for your work and increases your well being.

See, you personally love cell phones, even inside a game. So your bias is obvious - and hence your credibility on the issue is zero.

Ever take fencing?

People said the same thing about radio. They said the same about television. And yes, in your own generation, people said the same thing about both computers and the internet. Imagine, how did people play D&D 1e without EnWorld?

People without new technology always find negative things to say about that new technology (myself included), until they start using that technology. Maybe it's the sour grapes theory, who knows. But it seems consistently so.

You are making assumptions. Namely you assume that because I have a problem with people misusing technology and have the guts to point out that they cause people to stop paying attention to what they are doing (be that talking to loved ones in person, driveing orwhat have you) that I live without a cellphone. I hope you don't make assumptionslike that with your clients.

And I am sure some self-hater who owns a cell phone will come along quickly on this thread and try and justify why cell phones are evil despite his own use of one, and/or try to make it seem like their D&D time is somehow more sacred a time than other times when cellphone usage is permissable for them. That would also be typical (and in the 70's those same people would have said computer use was fine for at work, but nobody should ever have a need or a want to use one at home).

I'm not a self hater, I just have a sense of self worth that is greater than what you are used to. It has nothing to do with sacredness of my D&D time and has everything to do with a ladder of respect. Your clients are more important and thats cool. They and your family are higher on your ladder than I and your DM are. And if you are married with children, then that is as it should be. If you were talking to me face to face, I will let you know that I am unhappy when you interrupt me to take a cell call. Cause when I and your DM are within voice range of you, I think you should offer me and your DM the common human decency of a few rungs on your ladder.

So bash away, my non-cell-phone-using friends. You too will be drawn to the dark side. And when you do, I'll send you a text message congratulations...

I am not bashing. TV is great if a little over used. Radio had its uses and it also had its shining moments. Computers are handy. Technology is a two way street. It can empower you or it can mess up your life. Lots of people do not have the self control that you and I have. They become couch potatoes, freak out at War of the Worlds, and learn to shoot up schools. They also endanger thier lives and drive while talking on a cell phone, and somtimes ignore thier friends and what they are doing. And that to me is sad.

peace.

Aaron.

 

[demon_jr]

i love the group i play in, but can see that there are times during the game that OOC chat can get out of hand. although there are many times when i take part in it as well, there are other times when i wished the group was more focused.

i am a player in the group, and never have been the DM. from what i have noticed, there has never really been a discussion dealing with OOC chat or jokes during the game. i'm guessing the general opinion of our group is to have a fun and enjoyable time. the only problem, in my opinion is finding the happy medium or balance. there are times when a well placed joke or comment can add more enjoyment to the game, but most of the time, it seems to irritate the DM or our group.

this may or may not be related, but a few months ago a player within our group was told to leave the group. basically, this player had the tendency to be more of a disruption than a contributer to the game. this eventually lead to conflicts outside the game, where the player in question actually caused physical violence to another player.

i think the moral of the story is that everyone wants to get together to have a good time, and that communication is very much the key. i'm not sure if more communication with the ex-player would have kept him from being kicked out of the group, since he is known to have problems communicating himself, but it may have saved everyone a lot of drama.

i would imagine our group is composed of different types of players. some focus more on having a good time, chatting with their friends, which i can understand and respect. others focus more on the role-playing aspect and keeping the focus, which i can respect as well.

funny thing is, i don't think i would've cared either way what the group did just as long as everyone had fun, until that ex-player started to be the way he was.

not to mention the arguements that would erupt due to personality conflicts, i'm right your wrong, rules debating, and general irritability from earlier in the day...

 

[jester47]

Lets get this back on topic,

I think paying the pig works. Heres why: by paying the pig, you can do whatever thing you need to and you and your buddies can go do somthing after the game is over. It can help fund dinner or snack runs.

The Pig is there to make you think twice and to remind you "it had better be worth it." If it is, then everyone laughs at your snide remark, the troll makes some money, and everyone is a little better off.

Aaron.

 

[Agback]

Re: Fun = good

$.05 for bad puns? Man, if our group did that our soda fund would never run dry.

You're not kidding. We instituted a 5-cent fine for puns once, and everyone started contending to make the most subtle puns, ones that people would not notice until one paid up. In the second session of this nonsense I said something perfectly punless and tossed five cents into the jar. There was almost ten minutes of complete silence as everyone tried to work out what pun I had made. The third session consisted entirely of long pauses punctuated by subtle puns, and we got even less done than when the evenings had been dominated by horseplay.

The only way to control this sort of thing is with a squirt pistol. Better yet, by giving everyone at the table a squirt pistol: an armed society is a polite society.

But make sure all your books are covered in plastic.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Psychotic Dreamer]

Personally I don't like the whole pay the pig policy. Even if it is only small amounts of loose change. I wouldn't play with a group that used this, but if it works for you.... thats fine.

 

[Piratecat]

Wow! I never expected the concept to irk so many people. I doubt we'd need to do it if we had a small group; with 8 or so players, though, it sure helps us.

Anyways, we often use a rubber, hollow Jabba the Hutt for a piggy bank. It's more fun that way.

Zarathustran said...
-z, who believes smiles seen around the gaming table is a good thing.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[ced1106]

I remember this topic from another message board, and a two other suggestions were:
* First hour is for pizza and socializing
* Get together for socializing outside of gaming

And, of course, communicate. Tell the players you think there's not enough gaming -- some of them may be thinking this already.

There's also a psychological explanation behind PtP: If someone breaks a "law" and pays a large fine, he's inclined to continue breaking said law. If he pays a small one, he's inclined to stop the disruptive behavior. The reason is that the small fine is insufficient to stop the behavior, so the behavior is adjusted downwards to suit the fine.

Personally, I don't like PtP, but if everyone at the table can afford a cell phone and it all goes to snacks anyway, why not? I'd probably contribute anyway, since I like others to buy my snacks for me.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

If they say they do something jokingly(I moon the guard.), have them do just that. If they say something wierd, they will confuse NPCs, and disrupt any spells they are casting.

We tried that last week with a Living Greyhawk module. We called it the "you say it, you do it" rule.

So, I killed a baddie. And, forgetting about the rule, I jokingly said, "I cleave the old lady" (another PC--she was the only one in cleaving range). DM, as everyone else is laughing, makes me roll the hit, and it took her down (to about -6). My best cleave ever!

 

[bwgwl]

I play in a game that doesn't do this, and it drives me nuts - we never accomplish anything.

i guess i have a different view of "accomplishment." even in a session where the group spends 70% of the time in OOC chatter and only 30% in actual gaming, i still feel we accomplished something -- we hung out together and have fun. so we didn't further the game too much. oh well, maybe next week.

i guess for me, the socializing is even more important than the game itself.

 

[Sialia]

I'm a big pig fan.

I like allocated hanging out and gossip time, a bit before and a bit after the game, and maybe some during a dinner break. And then, once we start the game proper, I like to be immersed in the game. That's what I came for--to be someone else, somewhere else for a while. If I'm gonna tell jokes, then they should be in character jokes, until the session ends.

If I really can't help myself, because the out of game comment really needs to be made, so I pitch in a few cents and pay for it. It's no big deal.

But in almost every case where I've seen the Pig brought into play, almost nobody ever pays it. It's not the money--most folks hate having nickles and pennies weighing down their jeans anyhow. How many of you have a big loose change jar at home you haven't gotten around to rolling and taking to the bank for the past five years?

The point is that the group agrees that there is a general aesthetic that the game is enhanced by paying attention to it. Once we agree on what are finable offenses, most people agree they didn't really want those things around anyway and avoid doing them.

Know how you hate it when strangers yap during a movie? Same thing. When everybody agrees that the audience's job is to be immersed in the storytelling, then everyone has a better time.

If you're showing Rocky Horror, then the entire audience has a certain expectation of the way in which the group members enjoy the experience, and it's not by sitting quietly. If you go to Rocky Horror without buying in to the ground rules, the experience may not be as pleasant as it is for those who are fully participating.

The important thing is not to enforce rules that people hate. Establish what is important about how people behave at a game, and what helps the majority of the players to enjoy thier play, and then encourage a culture of conformity to that behavior for the course of the actual playing time.


Another thing I've seen DM's do is enforce "real time decision making," as in, "You hear a hiss, and sand starts to pour into the room from a slot in the wall." [DM checks watch meaningfully] "What do you do?" When the group has a deadline to solve a problem, it is easier to focus attention on it. no one can concentrate hard on soemthign for 10 hours. So one possibility to is to establish short periodsof time in which focus is required and distractions will be lethal. Then let the players rest for a bit and goof off a while. Then focus them again.

'a course, not knowing when the game is about to move in to real time can be a strong motivator for paying very careful attention.

I used to play in all night campaigns in college. It wasn't until I started with Piratecat's group that I started playing tiny 4 hour sessions. I was astonished at how much more you can get done in four hours than you can in ten. Deadlines are wonderful things.