PCs who dither when they should flee

[Joshua Randall]

In his latest masterpiece, Soneillon - part 2, Sepulchrave II talks about how his PCs knew they were outmatched, but they dithered instead of fleeing.

I have run into this problem over and over in my many years of DMing (and playing). The result is often a PC death, or even the dreaded Total Party Kill (TPK).

What can be done about PC dithering? How can the DM get the PCs to make tactically valid retreats once in a while? (As the DM, would you ever come out and say, "If your characters don't flee, they're probably going to get killed"?)

Does the heroic gaming system inherent in D&D discourage flight while encouraging fight against any odds? If so, is it even wise to make the PCs play against type?

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

The DM can tell the PC's that if they don't flee, they'll die. Why? Because the PLAYERS think that their characters can win the fight (metagaming) whereas the CHARACTERS, especially the intelligent or combat-wise members of the group, should realize that they are outmatched, and that a tactical retreat is in order. Of course, its the player's decision to heed on that tidbit of information...

I must admit that our group (whomever is the DM) rarely flees. The one occurance where our whole groupe clearly understood we had to flee was when the DM realized that the encounter he had devised for us was uber-powerful. We were facing (this was AD&D 2nd Ed.), approx. at 8th level, a red dragon, an anti-paladin (the DM is an anti-paladin freak) of higher level, two wizards of our level and a couple of ogres. We were a wizard, a paladin and his griffon mount (died), a thief (died), a NPC fighter (died), a fighter-thief (teleported out with), a dual class bard-wizard and a wizard (teleported out also).

Maitre D

 

[RigaMortus]

I beleive in one of the splat books there was an alternate use for Sense Motive where the PC could use it to size up a situation and see if they stood a chance against them. For those of you familiar with the EverQuest MMORPG (or most other MMORPGs) this is similiar to the /consider command that tells how powerful a creature is in relation to you... I forget which splat book it is in. I think it is a good mechanic personally, but one that is hardly ever used.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Flee, HA!

All PCs know that their DM would never give them an encounter they couldn't defeat. Even if the DM says that they need to run he is only trying to psych out the players. We Are INVINCIBLE!!!

But realy, many players think this way. It is even worse if as a DM you have never given them encounters they couldn't beat.

 

[Voadam]

PCs in my campaigns flee all the time.

I tell them up front that the world is out there as is, there are things that are weaker than them and there are things that are harder than them, and I do not fudge dice or shrink from kills, they have freedom to do whatever they want including dropping quests in the middle or fleeing the country.

I've had a mid level party of PCs flee from a nest of kobolds because they were getting pounded left and right without being able to touch the buggers, and it was a very smart withdrawal with the paladin covered in alchemists fire dodging the missile fire from murder holes in a four foot tunnel.

 

[Azure Trance]

He was the Ahma. I don't know ... they kicked ass before, and they almost cascaded in an entire choir of solars and planetars. If they weren't dismissed, or maybe the greater dispelling didn't get through, they could've stood from a small chance (and at least Ortwin and Shomei not dying) to kicking ass in the name of The Lord.

I say if there's hope, stay.