D&D 5E PHB first look

[SigmaOne]

Use this

Legend and Lore Archives http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/Archive.aspx?category=all&subcategory=legendslore

In particular, the four "D&D Next Goals" articles on this page: http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/Archive.aspx?page=2&category=all&subcategory=legendslore

 

[Agamon]

I'm beginning to think it was a poor choice of words to describe the tiers of play as basic, standard, and advanced. I understand why they picked basic and advanced, they have some nostalgia creed with the most established players. But they also bring with them some unwanted baggage that hinders discussion and even communication, not to mention confusion.(And it distracts from the discussion of the standard game as a standard)
Just one example, I've seen more than one poster in enworld and the playground consider phb=advanced, ergo the phb must be 60% optional and full of modules and everything not in basic is strictly optional. (Truth, phb = standard, and while you can decide in your own table game to deliberately ban 60% of it, the purpose is you use it mostly as a unit and it contains nothing that wildly changes gameplay.)

I think this is one case were a less retro approach would have flown better. Or if they really needed to use advanced and basic, name and advertise advanced as standard and name what is now advanced something else (expanded? evolved?)

No one's using the terms standard or advanced but people on a message board. It's Basic D&D and D&D. Tough to blame someone for terminology they aren't using.

 

[MoonSong]

No one's using the terms standard or advanced but people on a message board. It's Basic D&D and D&D. Tough to blame someone for terminology they aren't using.

More like nobody is using standard as a term and everybody completley shut off the moment they heard "advanced" next to "basic" and stopped caring about it all, in a way defaulting into a fake dichotomy where basic= core, lowest common denominator and advanced = everything else under the sun, crazy, wild mutable and strictly optional.

I mean nobody is using "advanced" but very evidently they are thinking of it whenever they refer to the phb and have the expectations of both the old advanced D&D of the first two editions and the hyped and highly expected tinkerer paradise full of modules anything-goes-so-nothing-goes that was promised in the lead in into the edition. I know thwy are just words, but right now the misuse of the terminology and the increased expectations are causing some players to feel disappointment and others to feel commitment anxiety.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

No one's using the terms standard or advanced but people on a message board. It's Basic D&D and D&D. Tough to blame someone for terminology they aren't using.

I'm not sure if that's true or not. And as a counter to my own argument before, I suspect people will refer to the full game as advanced any time they wish to separate it from basic. But your basic point is reasonable. The PHB is D&D, and in most contexts, that's how people will think of it.

 

[Agamon]

More like nobody is using standard as a term and everybody completley shut off the moment they heard "advanced" next to "basic" and stopped caring about it all, in a way defaulting into a fake dichotomy where basic= core, lowest common denominator and advanced = everything else under the sun, crazy, wild mutable and strictly optional.

I mean nobody is using "advanced" but very evidently they are thinking of it whenever they refer to the phb and have the expectations of both the old advanced D&D of the first two editions and the hyped and highly expected tinkerer paradise full of modules anything-goes-so-nothing-goes that was promised in the lead in into the edition. I know thwy are just words, but right now the misuse of the terminology and the increased expectations are causing some players to feel disappointment and others to feel commitment anxiety.

Some people should have listened to what was being designed instead of making assumptions based off of the naming of the pdf. Basic was a sunset of rules from the PH and the modularity comes in the DMG, that's been common knowledge for months.

Now if the books were called "Advanced D&D", you'd have a good point. But they aren't. You can't blame WotC for the unintended assumptions of a few customers.

 

[DMZ2112]

I'm not sure if that's true or not. And as a counter to my own argument before, I suspect people will refer to the full game as advanced any time they wish to separate it from basic. But your basic point is reasonable. The PHB is D&D, and in most contexts, that's how people will think of it.

Perhaps, but that sword cuts both ways. Complete, Retail, Full-On Dungeons & Dragons hasn't been Advanced Dungeons & Dragons for 15 years. Assuming that the PHB is the advanced game is no more rational than the decision that the DMG will contain the advanced rules.

 

[MoonSong]

I'm not sure if that's true or not. And as a counter to my own argument before, I suspect people will refer to the full game as advanced any time they wish to separate it from basic. But your basic point is reasonable. The PHB is D&D, and in most contexts, that's how people will think of it.

More of a reason to rise awareness about standard and to campaign for it to be considered as important as Basic. I think I'm the most vocal about it, though my motives for that don't seem to be the most popular (The one thread I started to rise awareness of it died under a pile of posts dissecting my motivations, and trust me the world turns way sadder the moment you are told you cannot trust forum moderators by an actual forum moderator).

Some people should have listened to what was being designed instead of making assumptions based off of the naming of the pdf. Basic was a sunset of rules from the PH and the modularity comes in the DMG, that's been common knowledge for months.

Now if the books were called "Advanced D&D", you'd have a good point. But they aren't. You can't blame WotC for the unintended assumptions of a few customers.

Well I can partially blame WotC because part of their job is to know their audience. I know hindsight is 20/20 and nobody is omniscient, but you cannot leave so much to chance and fate when your job is to communicate, I expect their marketing department to at least have taken more than five minutes to ponder the consequences of using certain nomenclature that goes wayback with the current customers. We certainly don't know how many players are hesitant to buy and how many more are disappointed upon their purchase because of a simple miscommunication issue.

 

[Agamon]

Well I can partially blame WotC because part of their job is to know their audience. I know hindsight is 20/20 and nobody is omniscient, but you cannot leave so much to chance and fate when your job is to communicate, I expect their marketing department to at least have taken more than five minutes to ponder the consequences of using certain nomenclature that goes wayback with the current customers. We certainly don't know how many players are hesitant to buy and how many more are disappointed upon their purchase because of a simple miscommunication issue.

A misconception issue, not miscommunication.

Set in a medieval fantasy world, D&D allows you to experience stories and adventures full of endless possibilities and amazing surprises. The Basic Rules for Dungeons & Dragons is a PDF that covers the core of the tabletop game.

The emphasis is mine. WotC has been up front that Basic is the core of the game, not a simple version of it. Any confusion with that lies with the customer.

 

[MoonSong]

A misconception issue, not miscommunication.

Misconceptions are born out of communication failures.

 

[Agamon]

Misconceptions are born out of communication failures.

LOL, true. And as this conversation proves, lack of communication can be the fault of either side (in other words, read my entire post rather than just quote the first sentence).